do not listen to the players complaining about haze

eliasmo7

New member
I know the devs are smart enough to not make changes based on popular opinions. i've seen many posts already about haze being too good/op and it may draw some attention to the devs. honestly, those players opinion shouldn't be considered.

Why haze is strong? is she hard carrying games with her ult? yeah she is meant to do that, she's a hyper carry, all mobas have hyper carrys.

are you annoyed because she's strong and carrying games? you have 16+ out of 21 characters that can easily take her down pre mid game with their abilities only, not even counting items. your job is to shut down hard carry heroes very early game, deny their farm, abuse them pre min 15 and they will struggle a LOT.

more than half of the current playerbase are shooter players that come from valorant/apex/csgo, etc. Moba players are not as many as them and i guarantee that, almost every game everybody wants to skillcheck the enemy with their aim, doing stupid teamfights where they dont need to. playing like their godlike aim will guarantee their victory. This is NOT the case.

Deadlock is a MOBA first, i can tell you that, and somehow its way harder for hard carrys to carry games if the enemy team knows what they're doing.. too many gank opportunities/objective push that can punish way too hard compared to dota 2, like how's it possible you take a guardian min 4-6? there is no early damage reduction for guardians, travel zip lane is slow without boost. creeps do a lot of damage very early, diving guardian is way too easy, too many flanks to shot you around the guardian, denying all your souls, etc.

you guys are still very new to this genre, haze is only strong because yall keep trying to play this game like a shooter/fps when in fact its a moba first, then a shooter.

like its not possible that a haze can easily 2v2 or 1v1 a lane and no one is coming to kill her, shut her down. not even the lane next to her. too many layers that aren't even being mentioned in those complain posts.

haze doesnt have a teleport like wraith, her third ability is a passive, her shuriken can be evaded/can miss, she outpositions and she's DEAD, if she gets away with her stamina only thats YOUR FAULT for not looking at her items/not managing your stamina correctly.

she's out macroing you and cant be ganked because she knows where she needs to farm? thats a YOU problem, stop doing brainless teamfights and learn about macro. be humbled.

oh she's destroying everybody early because she's teamfighting with her team? thats a TEAM problem, you included, help them early, coordinate fights, never fight in a number disadvantage. thats where she gets strong because many players DONT WANT TO back off, their ego is way too high. those players believe that can easily win teamfights with their pro valorant aim only.

learn to FOCUS HARD CARRIES. oh your team killed 3 enemies and the enemy team got 2 kills, but you didnt kill haze and she took those 2 kills, and now she's going to farm 2 lanes + jungle camps + crates. but anyways we killed the kelvin spirit build, lash and mo&krill, we got this... dear god THEY'RE NOT HARD CARRIES. no matter how good the players using them are, they might be a strong factor to win games but like in mobas, a midlaner cannot hard carry games alone, sometimes they do, but a hard carry is always better for that job.

many layers i can easily talk about in this post but it would take me HOURS typing before i finish, conclusion: haze is not strong, y'all complaining about her are just playing incorrectly.
 
saying that haze is not strong is some crazy cope, you can make an argument for why she's not op, but saying she's not strong is insane. to add to this, her character design is extremely one-dimension and boring for both the haze player and the enemy team. The only way to play her is farm until you get items and then walk into team fights to press 1 button.
 
saying that haze is not strong is some crazy cope, you can make an argument for why she's not op, but saying she's not strong is insane. to add to this, her character design is extremely one-dimension and boring for both the haze player and the enemy team. The only way to play her is farm until you get items and then walk into team fights to press 1 button.
you have never seen any dota 2 games right? faceless void goes afk 25+ minutes farm, then jumps into the teamfight, clicks chronosphere and thats his whole gameplay. look for the definition of hyper carry
 
so all you say in your post is "get good" and "learn to play". Calling everyone that has an issue with her a "shooter player" and not a "moba player" or was it the other way around?
You could at least address some of the complains other people have or giving advice other than "its your fault" and "focus her down".

Not sure why you compare her 3 with an escape and play it down? It is a significant dmg buff. About +3.5% dmg increase for every bullet hit plus 60 dmg bursts at T1. Combined with 10 bullets per second this can get out of hand even early on.
She maybe has low ammo early on, but ammo scales with spirit (0.5x) and she can put you to sleep for 3 seconds and reload in that time or just heavy melee you to finish you off.

And saying she has no escape at 3 stamina and the highest movespeed in the game...

Playing against Haze in enemy team is an arms race, finish before 30 minutes or loose the game. That is not fun. Sure you can say this is only possible because of bad positioning. But in the middle of a fight, in a lobby with random people, against a invisible enemy that can pop her ulti between all of you at any time, it is not always that easy to coordinate as you make it sound.

Her whole kit at the moment is over the top, scaling way too fast and too much.

Take McGinnis for example, she can be strong in late game too, but to get there you need to invest in a lot more than just gun dmg
 
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you have never seen any dota 2 games right? faceless void goes afk 25+ minutes farm, then jumps into the teamfight, clicks chronosphere and thats his whole gameplay. look for the definition of hyper carry
I dont play dota 2 so no, but after looking up some community discussion around this character you cannot tell me they aren't strong. Also, not broken =/= well designed and fun character
 
so all you say in your post is "get good" and "learn to play". Calling everyone that has an issue with her a "shooter player" and not a "moba player" or was it the other way around?
You could at least address some of the complains other people have or giving advice other than "its your fault" and "focus her down".

Not sure why you compare her 3 with an escape and play it down? It is a significant dmg buff. About +3.5% dmg increase for every bullet hit plus 60 dmg bursts at T1. Combined with 10 bullets per second this can get out of hand even early on.
She maybe has low ammo early on, but ammo scales with spirit (0.5x) and she can put you to sleep for 3 seconds and reload in that time or just heavy melee you to finish you off.

And saying she has no escape at 3 stamina and the highest movespeed in the game...

Playing against Haze in enemy team is an arms race, finish before 30 minutes or loose the game. That is not fun. Sure you can say this is only possible because of bad positioning. But in the middle of a fight, in a lobby with random people, against a invisible enemy that can pop her ulti between all of you at any time, it is not always that easy to coordinate as you make it sound.

Her whole kit at the moment is over the top, scaling way too fast and too much.

Take McGinnis for example, she can be strong in late game too, but to get there you need to invest in a lot more than just gun dmg
never said 3 should be an escape and play it down, i just said her 3 is a passive, not an active, it only deals dmg while she is attacking. a pure offensive passive. doesnt give fire rate, or spirit damage per shot or lifesteal like wraith's 3rd ability.

dont care about ammo or her damage, she's still easy to gank on

oh wow move speed, what a nice stat.. too bad its countered by almost everything, too many items that slow movespeed, abilities, stuns, etc. bruh move speed is useless if you are being chased down, a single bullet is enough to slow you forever. wraith has a tp with 12314 range to get out, also high move speed. seven runs around with 50 move speed, etc.

she's an HYPERCARRY, its a moba term, look it up for yourself if you dont know what it means. she is meant to be played like that, she can easily get super behind, she can easily be countered by mo&krill even if super strong.

this is not overwatch, get used to it.
 
saying that haze is not strong is some crazy cope, you can make an argument for why she's not op, but saying she's not strong is insane. to add to this, her character design is extremely one-dimension and boring for both the haze player and the enemy team. The only way to play her is farm until you get items and then walk into team fights to press 1 button.
You are overestimating that 1 button really hard, since she won't be able to press it unless she presses at least 2 more buttons (unstoppable and silencer, + possible vampire burst), also don't forget you have to really be in a open space for that.

If you watched any high mmr games you would see that her ultimate gets scaled to 5 points last because of how weak it is without her actually farming and actually surviving until late game. Also don't forget, she has the weakest melee and very small health pool early-mid game and very low weapon damage until her 3rd skill is scaled to 5, which only happens in mid game.

In my opinion Haze and Wraith are one of the most balanced heroes at the moment, they are neither strong or weak, they just require specific play style.

I honestly don't agree that her gameplay or kit are boring, she is one of the heroes that needs to have great positioning and has NO ESCAPE. Like take for example Vindicta, another hero that really depends on positioning hard, her kit is not fascinating, but her gameplay revolves around correct positioning, but she also has an escape. Same goes for Wraith, but she also has escape as well.
 
the reason most new players think HAZE is overpowered is because of their item building, that's all.

they look into their hero popular build items and just buy it left to right doing nothing more than that, those items are NOT situational in fact they are general build, buying a "metal skin" or "ethereal shift" is easiest item build that you can counter haze with it. ruining haze ONLY ulti with a "knockdown" can completely ruin fight for her.

at the late game you can kill her before she ults with a "curse" or any silences that your hero has.

if you think haze is op just go play it and learn it, this is the best way you can git gud against heroes that you suck against
 
I'm sorry but there are no "hyper carry" type thing atm, these heroes like haze and wraith can teamfight or duel cos they got high kill potential even from early on.

there are no "anti mage pve only until min 25" type of thing in this game.

these "carries" hero don't have weakness in early and laning phase.
 
I'm sorry but there are no "hyper carry" type thing atm, these heroes like haze and wraith can teamfight or duel cos they got high kill potential even from early on.

there are no "anti mage pve only until min 25" type of thing in this game.

these "carries" hero don't have weakness in early and laning phase.
yes they do lmao you're just being delusional. your mind is closed you cant look beyond the 1v1 or 2v2 scenarios.

you saying lash doesnt have a better early game compared to haze?
same for viscous? same for kelvin? what about abrams? warden? are those worse against haze? pre min 15 those characters should easily win lane vs haze.. now add a gank and force haze to not even touch her wave.. what can she no? nothing, there goes the snowball, now yall fighting 6v5 because haze is out of the game, it should be impossible to lose with a coordinated team.

valve is not nerfing her because you get stomped in pubs. they are looking into a strategic gameplay and if she's way too strong in that scenario then of course they will nerf her. you saying that they dont have weakness in early and laning phase is all i needed to know, you're not in high mmr so you've never punished a haze properly.
 
never said 3 should be an escape and play it down, i just said her 3 is a passive, not an active, it only deals dmg while she is attacking. a pure offensive passive. doesnt give fire rate, or spirit damage per shot or lifesteal like wraith's 3rd ability.
No spirit damage per shot, but 60 every 20 hits with her T1, which is equal to 3 spirit dmg per shot, compared to wraith's 5 per shot.
She doesnt get attack speed, but stacking weapon dmg increase per hit, which is a significant increase in her damage, compared to 20% for wraith.
She doesnt get 35% lifesteal for 5 seconds like Wraiths, Haze gets 30% for 8 seconds when attacking from stealth.
oh and the dmg buff of her passive lasts for 10 seconds while she is not hitting the target, wraith attack speed buff runs off after a couple of seconds....

oh wow move speed, what a nice stat.. too bad its countered by almost everything, too many items that slow movespeed, abilities, stuns, etc. bruh move speed is useless if you are being chased down, a single bullet is enough to slow you forever. wraith has a tp with 12314 range to get out, also high move speed. seven runs around with 50 move speed, etc.
Not every hero has a stun/slow/bind early...


You call her Hypercarry, some call her balanced, I call her kit and scaling over the top compared to other heroes. There is a reason she is in every single match right now. With 21 heroes and 12 of them played in every match, in theory her pick rate should be closer to 57% and not 100%. I have over 100 games and there are still heroes I have laned against once or twice but in my last 10, I laned against haze 5 times....
 
I'm sorry but there are no "hyper carry" type thing atm, these heroes like haze and wraith can teamfight or duel cos they got high kill potential even from early on.

there are no "anti mage pve only until min 25" type of thing in this game.

these "carries" hero don't have weakness in early and laning phase.
This is plain incorrect, watch some high mmr pubs of good players, and you will see how haze gets harassed into oblivion in the early game.
You can also check good players on twitch streaming live, almost every game they play haze they get killed 1-3 times on lane.

If you got outplayed by haze on laning stage, it just means you played badly and need to improve your laning skills, nothing more. She is currently the worst laning hero, probably even behind Lady Geist, who is one of the worst hero in the game overall.
 
No spirit damage per shot, but 60 every 20 hits with her T1, which is equal to 3 spirit dmg per shot, compared to wraith's 5 per shot.
She doesnt get attack speed, but stacking weapon dmg increase per hit, which is a significant increase in her damage, compared to 20% for wraith.
She doesnt get 35% lifesteal for 5 seconds like Wraiths, Haze gets 30% for 8 seconds when attacking from stealth.
oh and the dmg buff of her passive lasts for 10 seconds while she is not hitting the target, wraith attack speed buff runs off after a couple of seconds....


Not every hero has a stun/slow/bind early...


You call her Hypercarry, some call her balanced, I call her kit and scaling over the top compared to other heroes. There is a reason she is in every single match right now. With 21 heroes and 12 of them played in every match, in theory her pick rate should be closer to 57% and not 100%. I have over 100 games and there are still heroes I have laned against once or twice but in my last 10, I laned against haze 5 times....
I see Kelvin, Abrams, Wraith much more than Haze. Does it mean they are all over the top? Really doubt that.

The hero pool of this game is way too low to look at pick rates at the moment. It is more correct to look at ban rate, and if you do look on that, you will see who really is a very good hero (khe khe Dynamo/Kelvin, khe khe).
 
Just a note but... a lot of people mention that Haze is in every game, other people claim she's boring, etc.

Is it possible she's in every game because people just... like playing her? I mean we can argue numbers and stats all day long, but there is always an element to be considered that cannot be quantified and that's just... preference. For example, I know Geist and Kelvin are powerful, but they're not really my style so I don't play them. Saying Haze being picked every game is proof she's overpowered isn't... accurate. Because it's not a simple equation.

All I'm saying is... there are elements of this we cannot quantify or measure, and so speaking in absolutes will not help. That's all!
 
I'm pretty confused by your post because you listed the basics of any MOBA gameplay instead of reasons why the specific character Haze isn't broken. The only "counters" I ever see for people coping about Haze are the same things such as "Roam with team and kill her, CC her, don't feed her, play safe, etc". These are basic MOBA mechanics on how to counter anybody, telling people on valid ways on how to deal with them does not suddenly make the character not broken, these are not Haze-specific either. The few "Haze-specific" counters such as Metal-skin are cope once she gets going, but I already went into this in my own posts.

Lastly i'm also curious why you are so worried about people complaining about Haze? Her design is extremely simple and braindead, she is nothing really fun honestly to play against, and I don't think she's very fun to play as either since it's the same ult-bot with the same 3 late game items every game. If she is so unfair, and just not fun to play against, then I really can't see why you even made the post like this is some travesty that people complain about her so much, she's just a videogame character that is way too braindead and problematic. Her issues such as her innate scalings, item combinations, simplicity despite being massively rewarding, are all issues that I believe are a problem with Deadlock as a whole for some other characters too.
 
you have never seen any dota 2 games right? faceless void goes afk 25+ minutes farm, then jumps into the teamfight, clicks chronosphere and thats his whole gameplay. look for the definition of hyper carry
heres the problem, you said shes like faceless void? the problem is that not enough overtuned scaling hero like that.

so imagine if dota only have 1 carry hero, only faceless void, other carry hero who can scale their potential is nowhere to be found but only faceless void, sure there is offlane str or int support/mid hero they can scale to be scary, for sure, but they still cant beat carry heroes on late game, do people gonna complain about faceless void? of course they do.
 
yes they do lmao you're just being delusional. your mind is closed you cant look beyond the 1v1 or 2v2 scenarios.

you saying lash doesnt have a better early game compared to haze?
same for viscous? same for kelvin? what about abrams? warden? are those worse against haze? pre min 15 those characters should easily win lane vs haze.. now add a gank and force haze to not even touch her wave.. what can she no? nothing, there goes the snowball, now yall fighting 6v5 because haze is out of the game, it should be impossible to lose with a coordinated team.

valve is not nerfing her because you get stomped in pubs. they are looking into a strategic gameplay and if she's way too strong in that scenario then of course they will nerf her. you saying that they dont have weakness in early and laning phase is all i needed to know, you're not in high mmr so you've never punished a haze properly.

I think you also need to be way more realistic here and fair to the vast majority of the playerbase. MOBAs in general are well known for doing balance passes for both High-MMR/Pro scene as well as 95% of the other portion of the playerbase at the same time. You (hopefully) can understand that majority of players are not looking to play hyper-competitive like pros in almost all of the matches. Some characters are absolutely broken in majority of matches, and get somewhat worse when you are very high elo. Does this mean that they have been fair all along? No, this means that the more experienced players are more aware of how to deal with the character's bullshit, even when they are still broken.

Just because our team can agree "Hey guys, the Haze will definitely try find a good time to AoE-ult, silence, one-shot us as soon as we try to make a play, so let's play super safe and REALLY try not to die instantly since we can't react. Also, we can't fight her solo, but we also can't find a pick on her, because she's smart enough to know the only way she will lose is if she gets perma CC'd 1v4"

She simply is not fair or fun, and she's far from the only "Unfair, unfun" character, but he's just a major outlier with her kit/item combination.
 
She simply is not fair or fun, and she's far from the only "Unfair, unfun" character, but he's just a major outlier with her kit/item combination.

I think the key point is that she is the most braindead character that becomes "unfun" to play against. Others require some semblance of game awareness or aiming skill. Seven comes close but even then his ult is stationary allowing teams to run for cover. Same with Bebop's ult. Her ult is the only one in game that is unavoidable (when shes on top of you) and by the time you get close to getting away you're already dead.
 
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