Ok who thought the haze buff was a good idea?

[rays1712]

2. If she has a massive enough attack speed to delete you in 3 seconds, then any response I have to this will amount to victim shaming.

i aint invalidate whatever you say in this thread, but then again, in this thread, you say she need 3 seconds to delete her enemy, that just proved one point, you ignore her ability to actually delete enemies within 1 seconds or less in late game.

if she actually need 3 seconds, heck even 2 seconds, i wont complaint
but when shes online with full gear, she can teamwipe whole team within 1 seconds or less, an instant deletion many would say.
this is the complaints.
no other hero can do this no matter how much your souls have.

her scaling is too high.
thats the problem.
its always fighting against time, not fun.

 

[SaintYin]

if she actually need 3 seconds, heck even 2 seconds, i wont complaint
but when shes online with full gear, she can teamwipe whole team within 1 seconds or less, an instant deletion many would say.
this is the complaints.
no other hero can do this no matter how much your souls have.

No, she can't wipe out a "whole team" within 1 second, especially if souls are anywhere near equal and the opposing team makes even the barest attempts to protect themselves. But, let's humor you. Give me the Haze build that supposedly deals so much damage that literally anything can't survive more than 1 second against it. I'll take the time to calculate the damage output and make sure it matches up with in-game calculations. However, we both know that it's not going to be dealing 4k damage through bullet resistance within the first second.

Now, if that team were already 30-50% health, clustered ideally, not building survivability options, and Haze had Ricochet and the T3s of her third and fourth skills, then yeah, I can see it taking less than a second to wipe that.

But to be clear: Metal Skin. It buys you 3.5 seconds to walk away and is instant-cast. You can alternatively use Warp Stone to instantly get out of range. If your response time is so delayed that you're eating a full second of Haze ult after hearing her 0.2 second warning callout, then maybe you're in the ELO you deserve.

 

[rays1712]

No, she can't wipe out a "whole team" within 1 second, especially if souls are anywhere near equal and the opposing team makes even the barest attempts to protect themselves. But, let's humor you. Give me the Haze build that supposedly deals so much damage that literally anything can't survive more than 1 second against it. I'll take the time to calculate the damage output and make sure it matches up with in-game calculations. However, we both know that it's not going to be dealing 4k damage through bullet resistance within the first second.

Now, if that team were already 30-50% health, clustered ideally, not building survivability options, and Haze had Ricochet and the T3s of her third and fourth skills, then yeah, I can see it taking less than a second to wipe that.

But to be clear: Metal Skin. It buys you 3.5 seconds to walk away and is instant-cast. You can alternatively use Warp Stone to instantly get out of range. If your response time is so delayed that you're eating a full second of Haze ult after hearing her 0.2 second warning callout, then maybe you're in the ELO you deserve.

so you try to disagree, but at the same time agree with what i said about haze can team wipe within less than a second.

thats enough for me.

 

[rays1712]

No, she can't wipe out a "whole team" within 1 second, especially if souls are anywhere near equal and the opposing team makes even the barest attempts to protect themselves. But, let's humor you. Give me the Haze build that supposedly deals so much damage that literally anything can't survive more than 1 second against it. I'll take the time to calculate the damage output and make sure it matches up with in-game calculations. However, we both know that it's not going to be dealing 4k damage through bullet resistance within the first second.

Now, if that team were already 30-50% health, clustered ideally, not building survivability options, and Haze had Ricochet and the T3s of her third and fourth skills, then yeah, I can see it taking less than a second to wipe that.

But to be clear: Metal Skin. It buys you 3.5 seconds to walk away and is instant-cast. You can alternatively use Warp Stone to instantly get out of range. If your response time is so delayed that you're eating a full second of Haze ult after hearing her 0.2 second warning callout, then maybe you're in the ELO you deserve.

try this, cost approx 50k soul.

and then she can snowball into more braindead after this, this isnt even her final form form.

thats 4k dmg/seconds, AOE btw, so potential 24k dmg/seconds.

so bullet resist 2k dmg/seconds just like i said? sounds about right.

about countering, sure you can counter anyone, thats including haze, but outside countering them, who have this kind of power left unchecked?
no one, just admit it, shes overtuned.

 

[chaogod1233]

1. I am more convinced you dont even play and your an elborate troll.
2. Yup keep being more obvious.
3. This doesn't change what I said at all. Its still far too large.
4. Sure pal. Your the master anti Haze who cant back it up.
5. Pretty certain seven is in a free fall. Hes not picked as much since he has been nerfed and is far more managable than before. Which is easy to notice if you play actively.
6. Maybe in one or two heroes. Again the items that counter her are completely worthless.

You know how this goes because your just here to troll dude. You talk big game about how she isn't a big deal and that you can easily deal with her but too shy to share match ID's or a video. If you have nothing to contribute to discredit how badly balanced this character is other than "git gud" which doesnt work when the character is flawed at a fundamental level lmao.

 

[MorphingE]

1. I am more convinced you dont even play and your an elborate troll.
2. Yup keep being more obvious.
3. This doesn't change what I said at all. Its still far too large.
4. Sure pal. Your the master anti Haze who cant back it up.
5. Pretty certain seven is in a free fall. Hes not picked as much since he has been nerfed and is far more managable than before. Which is easy to notice if you play actively.
6. Maybe in one or two heroes. Again the items that counter her are completely worthless.

You know how this goes because your just here to troll dude. You talk big game about how she isn't a big deal and that you can easily deal with her but too shy to share match ID's or a video. If you have nothing to contribute to discredit how badly balanced this character is other than "git gud" which doesnt work when the character is flawed at a fundamental level lmao.

Certainly hostile, huh. Fine. I'll edit this post with a match ID when I get home.

 

[Hauso]

she is not OP, she is BROKEN!

 

[rays1712]

the argument defending haze the whole time be like :

- just counter it mate
- just run away from it, just dodge it.

i got a feeling when theres a punching contest between prime mike tyson vs average joe where they take turn punching each other but theres a rule : you can try to dodge the attack.

people defending haze be like, yep thats still a fair fight, average joe is the same as mike tyson, this is not an imbalance contest, what are you talking about, just dodge when mike tyson punch you, smh, you amateur.

just to clear up tho, my complaint still about haze on late game, its became super dicey and i dont personally like that.
shes the low of the lowest in the hands of people that dont know the concept of carry heroes, but the high of the highest on the hands of people who have frontal lobe and ever play carry heroes in moba.

 

[SaintYin]

try this, cost approx 50k soul.

and then she can snowball into more braindead after this, this isnt even her final form form.

thats 4k dmg/seconds, AOE btw, so potential 24k dmg/seconds.

First, it's not AoE. It's 1 target, chosen randomly among all targets in the radius. With the T3 upgrade, it's 2 targets chosen randomly. Ricochet artificially increases the number of possible targets, which has the benefit of hitting up to 6 targets with 4 of them not being in the radius, but it is still ideal to only ult 3 targets with ricochet for maximum damage output.

Anyways, onto your selected items.

Lucky Shot does not proc during ult, so that is a 6.2k soul investment for 18% weapon damage.
Crippling Headshot does not proc during ult as they're guaranteed bodyshots, even if you ult from above. You must headshot a target beforehand, which means it's pretty unlikely to get value out of it on multiple enemies during a teamfight unless an ally has this item instead. So that is a 6.2k soul investment for 38% weapon damage.
Ricochet does proc during ult. It's an extremely powerful contribution to her ult's damage output as it propagates her Fixation to 3 targets per bullet, making the first 1 second interval stack up much faster than without it.
Burst Fire does not proc during ult, but any bodyshot on a hero beforehand can make it work. That increases the delay to the ult and only empowers it for up to 4 seconds, but it's not as unreasonable an ask as Crippling Headshot's inclusion.
Silencer is a +6.2k soul investment for 12% weapon damage over Slowing Bullets. Unless you absolutely need enemies to not use their abilities to block you or protect themselves/their allies, I'd recommend not getting this item. Still, I'll use it to run the numbers.

Enduring Speed, Bullet Lifesteal, and Unstoppable do not contribute to Haze's ult damage output. Mystic Reverb allows you to imbue to Haze's 4, but it actually never procs. Probably a bug, but it only snapshots the first instance of damage of an ability, so even if it did proc, it'd be dealing 40% of 1 bullet hit. Escalating Exposure only applies to Haze's 3 procs during ult and it won't apply to the first since that's the instance that'll apply the reductions/amps in the first place.

Boundless Spirit is a 9.7k soul investment for 25% weapon damage.

On paper, you've got 151% weapon damage, 24% fire rate (54% if you shoot immediately before ulting), and a bunch of spirit. Her ult deals 9 bullet damage at 1, 12 damage at max level. For the sake of my sanity, I'm rounding your 79% fire rate up to 80%. Assume you got an early idol drop for fire rate or something.

Her damage comes out as follows:
Min Level-
9 * 2.51 = 23 damage per shot main target
9 * 2.51 * 0.6 = 14 damage per shot secondary target
Max Level-
12 * 2.51 = 30 damage per shot main target
12 * 2.51 * 0.6 = 18 damage per shot secondary target

10 * (1 + .54 + .25 + 0.01) = 18 bullets fired per second.

A worst case is 1 target, nothing else for Ricochet or T3 ult to contribute. This is a 2/3 growth rate for Fixation stacks. Fixation is unaffected by weapon damage.
Minimum: 23 * 18 + 61 (Fixation damage) = 475 damage in the first second
Maximum: 30 * 18 + 61 = 601 damage in the first second

The ideal priority-target case is 2 targets, nothing else. This allows T3 ult to come online, gives Ricochet value, but doesn't depend on solely Ricochet to hit the target.
Minimum: 23 * 18 + 14 * 18 + 263 (Fixation damage) + 107 (Fixation T1 proc) = 1036 damage in the first second to both targets
Maximum: 30 * 18 + 18 * 18 + 263 + 107 = 1234 damage in the first second to both targets

Full output is 3+ targets so Ricochet can do all its bounces. This introduces some variance in damage dealt to any one target since main shots and ricochet shots deal different amounts, but I can still state the total damage output when at 3 targets.
Minimum: 1036 * 2 (previous two) + (14*36 + 263 + 107) (additional ricochets) = 2946 total output in 1 second across 3 targets (average 982 per target)
Maximum: 1234 * 2 + 18*36 + 263 + 107 = 3486 total output in 1 second across 3 targets (average 1162 per target)

Adding more than 3 targets in your case would probably increase the total damage output since you're well past the 20 stack threshold for a proc, but you don't meet the 40 stack threshold to get 2 procs.

As you can see, Haze ult is very survivable with your "OP" build. You could get better damage off half the souls.

 

[rays1712]

First, it's not AoE. It's 1 target, chosen randomly among all targets in the radius. With the T3 upgrade, it's 2 targets chosen randomly. Ricochet artificially increases the number of possible targets, which has the benefit of hitting up to 6 targets with 4 of them not being in the radius, but it is still ideal to only ult 3 targets with ricochet for maximum damage output.

Anyways, onto your selected items.

Lucky Shot does not proc during ult, so that is a 6.2k soul investment for 18% weapon damage.
Crippling Headshot does not proc during ult as they're guaranteed bodyshots, even if you ult from above. You must headshot a target beforehand, which means it's pretty unlikely to get value out of it on multiple enemies during a teamfight unless an ally has this item instead. So that is a 6.2k soul investment for 38% weapon damage.
Ricochet does proc during ult. It's an extremely powerful contribution to her ult's damage output as it propagates her Fixation to 3 targets per bullet, making the first 1 second interval stack up much faster than without it.
Burst Fire does not proc during ult, but any bodyshot on a hero beforehand can make it work. That increases the delay to the ult and only empowers it for up to 4 seconds, but it's not as unreasonable an ask as Crippling Headshot's inclusion.
Silencer is a +6.2k soul investment for 12% weapon damage over Slowing Bullets. Unless you absolutely need enemies to not use their abilities to block you or protect themselves/their allies, I'd recommend not getting this item. Still, I'll use it to run the numbers.

Enduring Speed, Bullet Lifesteal, and Unstoppable do not contribute to Haze's ult damage output. Mystic Reverb allows you to imbue to Haze's 4, but it actually never procs. Probably a bug, but it only snapshots the first instance of damage of an abilities anyways. It doesn't contribute to its damage anyways. Escalating Exposure only applies to Haze's 3 procs during ult and it won't apply to the first since that's the instance that'll apply the reductions/amps in the first place.

Boundless Spirit is a 9.7k soul investment for 25% weapon damage.

On paper, you've got 151% weapon damage, 24% fire rate (54% if you shoot immediately before ulting), and a bunch of spirit. Her ult deals 9 bullet damage at 1, 12 damage at max level. For the sake of my sanity, I'm rounding your 79% fire rate up to 80%. Assume you got an early idol drop for fire rate or something.

Her damage comes out as follows:
Min Level-
9 * 2.51 = 23 damage per shot main target
9 * 2.51 * 0.6 = 14 damage per shot secondary target
Max Level-
12 * 2.51 = 30 damage per shot main target
12 * 2.51 * 0.6 = 18 damage per shot secondary target

10 * (1 + .54 + .25 + 0.01) = 18 bullets fired per second.

A worst case is 1 target, nothing else for Ricochet or T3 ult to contribute. This is a 2/3 growth rate for Fixation stacks. Fixation is unaffected by weapon damage.
Minimum: 23 * 18 + 61 (Fixation damage) = 475 damage in the first second
Maximum: 30 * 18 + 61 = 601 damage in the first second

The ideal priority-target case is 2 targets, nothing else. This allows T3 ult to come online, gives Ricochet value, but doesn't depend on solely Ricochet to hit the target.
Minimum: 23 * 18 + 14 * 18 + 263 (Fixation damage) + 107 (Fixation T1 proc) = 1036 damage in the first second to both targets
Maximum: 30 * 18 + 18 * 18 + 263 + 107 = 1234 damage in the first second to both targets

Full output is 3+ targets so Ricochet can do all its bounces. This introduces some variance in damage dealt to any one target since main shots and ricochet shots deal different amounts, but I can still state the total damage output when at 3 targets.
Minimum: 1036 * 2 (previous two) + (14*36 + 263 + 107) (additional ricochets) = 2946 total output in 1 second across 3 targets (average 982 per target)
Maximum: 1234 * 2 + 18*36 + 263 + 107 = 3486 total output in 1 second across 3 targets (average 1162 per target)

Adding more than 3 targets in your case would probably increase the total damage output since you're well past the 20 stack threshold for a proc, but you don't meet the 40 stack threshold to get 2 procs.

As you can see, Haze ult is very survivable with your "OP" build. You could get better damage off half the souls.

ah my bad, you ask for ult only build not a normal game haze.
but even without ult insta deleting build, its still huge isnt it?

my bad man, yeah its normal gameplay haze where she can shoot normally and a good stats for her.
you can easily make much more cheaper soul, and can online within 20-25 minute,
i just put a normal 35 minute late normal haze game in there man.

thank you for the calculation, i really appreciate it.
but the number inside the game is far different than your calculation.
you probably forgot about spirit innate scaling for haze stats and calling it a waste
also -24% bullet resist reduction from crippling headshot which makes people without bullet resist goes to minus value where its actually amplify the bullet damage.

but i do really appreciate the calculation tho.