Ok who thought the haze buff was a good idea?

[IgorNL]

Haze is currently the strongest character in the game. The character requires very little skill. You can easily reach 100+ ammo in your weapon and cause absurd damage just by holding M1. Your knife is the same as Wraith's ultimate, but even stronger. You put the target to sleep, reduce their resistance and remove their vigor, and it still lasts longer than Wraith's ultimate. Haze's ultimate is completely off the charts. It activates ammo effects like ricochets, toxic bullets, screen bullets, etc. It's completely absurd. No other skill in the game works this way. You can simply become invisible if you throw yourself in the middle of 6 enemies and press 4, and you easily eliminate the entire enemy team. He's the most braindead character in the game. The character has a passive instead of skill 3 so that the player has one less skill to learn how to use. Haze is completely broken.

Skill 1: Wraith's ultimate buffed with almost no CD.
Skill 2: Invisibility + move speed + life steal.
Skill 3: A passive that buffs the M1.
Skill 4: Seven's ultimate with 10x more damage and a slightly smaller area that activates all shooting effects (toxic bullets, tesla bullets, etc.).

And the character doesn't even need items like the titanic cartridge to have more ammo because the ammo scales with spiritual power, you get free spirit and you already get 100+ ammo, totally unbalanced.

 

[SaintYin]

Haze is a newbie-eater. If the enemy:

• Refuses to build bullet resist
• Refuses to build bullet counters
• Refuses to build antiheal
• Refuses to hold control effects (prior to Haze getting Unstoppable)
• Refuses to push the early advantage prior to Haze reaching 15-20k souls
• Refuses to watch Haze's ult cooldown before deathballing
• Refuses to punish when Haze's ult is on cooldown
• Refuses to believe that Haze can get within ult range, or that they won't take much damage in the 2-3 seconds it takes to dash out.

Then Haze becomes OP. The more of these dots you answer, the easier Haze gets to deal with.

If you want to see something funny, tell your team to all buy Return Fire and deathball, then have everyone activate it when they hear Haze start her ult. She splatters herself within milliseconds because she's taking 70-308% of her ult's damage, depending on its tier and her access to Ricochet.

 

[IgorNL]

Haze is a newbie-eater. If the enemy:

• Refuses to build bullet resist
• Refuses to build bullet counters
• Refuses to build antiheal
• Refuses to hold control effects (prior to Haze getting Unstoppable)
• Refuses to push the early advantage prior to Haze reaching 15-20k souls
• Refuses to watch Haze's ult cooldown before deathballing
• Refuses to punish when Haze's ult is on cooldown
• Refuses to believe that Haze can get within ult range, or that they won't take much damage in the 2-3 seconds it takes to dash out.

Then Haze becomes OP. The more of these dots you answer, the easier Haze gets to deal with.

If you want to see something funny, tell your team to all buy Return Fire and deathball, then have everyone activate it when they hear Haze start her ult. She splatters herself within milliseconds because she's taking 70-308% of her ult's damage, depending on its tier and her access to Ricochet.

There are 5 other players with 5 other characters on the enemy team, and you will buy items specifically to fight the haze, you will ignore the other characters just to counter the haze, this just shows how absurd the character is, you are forced to buy Anti-Haze items to have a chance against the character, while other characters can be fought easily without the help of any item. Also, even if you buy items just to fight Haze, she can also do the same and buy items to counter yours, like Unstoppable for example.

 

[mrxlongshot]

buy an item that disarms her if you're having trouble, she's all gun, no skill.

And I mean that in both ways cause my hate for haze and wraith is growing every time I join a match and see them. so like 80% of games lel.

she has to just grab unstoppable with silencer and its GGs lol

 

[mrxlongshot]

Haze is a newbie-eater. If the enemy:

• Refuses to build bullet resist
• Refuses to build bullet counters
• Refuses to build antiheal
• Refuses to hold control effects (prior to Haze getting Unstoppable)
• Refuses to push the early advantage prior to Haze reaching 15-20k souls
• Refuses to watch Haze's ult cooldown before deathballing
• Refuses to punish when Haze's ult is on cooldown
• Refuses to believe that Haze can get within ult range, or that they won't take much damage in the 2-3 seconds it takes to dash out.

Then Haze becomes OP. The more of these dots you answer, the easier Haze gets to deal with.

If you want to see something funny, tell your team to all buy Return Fire and deathball, then have everyone activate it when they hear Haze start her ult. She splatters herself within milliseconds because she's taking 70-308% of her ult's damage, depending on its tier and her access to Ricochet.

thats insanely broken if you have to reach an end point on souls cause she just scales so well past that point and just keeps snowballing while everyone plays in a more moderate capacity, Her kit is broken not cause shes a newbie eater its cause her kit is actually busted lol

 

[pakshin55]

She is in every game, just check watch tab in client. She is broken and most powerful carry there is. Also noob stomper. Cant wait for her rework or something so i can actually play her(highest priority for 100+ games and only 3 games on her),

 

[Lady Briar]

Haze is currently the strongest character in the game. The character requires very little skill.

A no skill Haze will not have the right items or farm. They will not know how to position. They will not land their skill shots. They will ult at bad times, etc.

You can easily reach 100+ ammo in your weapon and cause absurd damage just by holding M1.

So can literally every other character in the game.

Your knife is the same as Wraith's ultimate

This is factually untrue. Haze's knife is a straight line skill shot with no range limit, lasts 3 seconds unless the target takes damage in which case they wake up in 0.1 seconds, does 70 damage, and does not interrupt channeling.

Wraith's ult has a 20m cast range, lasts for 1.25 seconds and cannot be ended early, and is NOT a skill shot and will absolutely chase the targeted enemy even through a zipline boost and into their spawn if it has to. It also does 200 damage and is a stun, so it interrupts channeling.

Please do not make this kind of false equivalence, it could confuse newer players.

Haze's ultimate is completely off the charts. It activates ammo effects like ricochets, toxic bullets, screen bullets, etc. It's completely absurd. No other skill in the game works this way.

Dynamo, Seven, McGinnis, BeBop, just to name a few off the top of my head...

Interesting fact, none of the heroes ults truly work the same as any other skill in the game.

That's... the point. They're unique.

You can simply become invisible if you throw yourself in the middle of 6 enemies and press 4, and you easily eliminate the entire enemy team.

The invisibility isn't true invisibility. Haze CAN be seen when she's close to you, if Haze tries to stealth during a fight she will not be fooling anyone and will die.

He's the most braindead character in the game. The character has a passive instead of skill 3 so that the player has one less skill to learn how to use. Haze is completely broken.

Abrams and Infernus both also have a passive ability as their 3...

Skill 1: Wraith's ultimate buffed with almost no CD.

Factually untrue, as explained above.

Skill 2: Invisibility + move speed + life steal.

Limited invisibility. Life steal only comes into play from items or when her 2 is MAX LEVEL and activated, lasting 8 seconds and with over half a minute for cooldown.

Skill 4: Seven's ultimate with 10x more damage and a slightly smaller area that activates all shooting effects (toxic bullets, tesla bullets, etc.).

Slightly smaller? Slightly smaller? Bullet Dance has a 15m radius, unmodified. Seven has 25 unmodified. 35 when leveled. Haze can only extend her ult with I believe three items, one which is tier 4. Putting it, at most, at 24m. With those same items, Seven can get up to 55.

And the character doesn't even need items like the titanic cartridge to have more ammo because the ammo scales with spiritual power, you get free spirit and you already get 100+ ammo, totally unbalanced.

You're assuming Haze would stack spirit power, which most wouldn't, as her ult is one of the only ones in the game that doesn't get a damage benefit from Spirit Power.

Base damage from a Haze ult to the face is 410 damage. Damage you only take if you are in, or stay in, her small radius. Or don't stun her. Or don't wall her off. Or don't hide behind cover.

Seven's base ult damage is 770.

So he has only an extra 10 seconds longer on his ult cooldown, compared to Haze. His ult can get more than twice the size of Haze's ult with the same items. He can cast his ult from the air and STAY there whereas if Haze ults from above she falls to the ground. This makes her more vulnerable to damage and stuns. Seven's ult does almost twice as much damage as hers...

Literally how do you come to the conclusion that Haze is apparently some OP powerful god queen... but Seven is fine? Also Seven has a non skill-shot stun, again. Same as Wraith. Is Haze powerful? Yes, duh, absolutely. But calling her an instant win, brain dead level, etc...

It's disingenuous.



Look... I get you feel a type of way about Haze and, honestly, I do understand that. It can be incredibly frustrating playing against certain heroes that we struggle against. But, it does seem as thought you may be letting your feelings bias you, because the facts and numbers simply do not support your arguments.

 

[IgorNL]

A no skill Haze will not have the right items or farm. They will not know how to position. They will not land their skill shots. They will ult at bad times, etc.

So can literally every other character in the game.

This is factually untrue. Haze's knife is a straight line skill shot with no range limit, lasts 3 seconds unless the target takes damage in which case they wake up in 0.1 seconds, does 70 damage, and does not interrupt channeling.

Wraith's ult has a 20m cast range, lasts for 1.25 seconds and cannot be ended early, and is NOT a skill shot and will absolutely chase the targeted enemy even through a zipline boost and into their spawn if it has to. It also does 200 damage and is a stun, so it interrupts channeling.

Please do not make this kind of false equivalence, it could confuse newer players.

Dynamo, Seven, McGinnis, BeBop, just to name a few off the top of my head...

Interesting fact, none of the heroes ults truly work the same as any other skill in the game.

That's... the point. They're unique.

The invisibility isn't true invisibility. Haze CAN be seen when she's close to you, if Haze tries to stealth during a fight she will not be fooling anyone and will die.

Abrams and Infernus both also have a passive ability as their 3...

Factually untrue, as explained above.

Limited invisibility. Life steal only comes into play from items or when her 2 is MAX LEVEL and activated, lasting 8 seconds and with over half a minute for cooldown.

Slightly smaller? Slightly smaller? Bullet Dance has a 15m radius, unmodified. Seven has 25 unmodified. 35 when leveled. Haze can only extend her ult with I believe three items, one which is tier 4. Putting it, at most, at 24m. With those same items, Seven can get up to 55.

You're assuming Haze would stack spirit power, which most wouldn't, as her ult is one of the only ones in the game that doesn't get a damage benefit from Spirit Power.

Base damage from a Haze ult to the face is 410 damage. Damage you only take if you are in, or stay in, her small radius. Or don't stun her. Or don't wall her off. Or don't hide behind cover.

Seven's base ult damage is 770.

So he has only an extra 10 seconds longer on his ult cooldown, compared to Haze. His ult can get more than twice the size of Haze's ult with the same items. He can cast his ult from the air and STAY there whereas if Haze ults from above she falls to the ground. This makes her more vulnerable to damage and stuns. Seven's ult does almost twice as much damage as hers...

Literally how do you come to the conclusion that Haze is apparently some OP powerful god queen... but Seven is fine? Also Seven has a non skill-shot stun, again. Same as Wraith. Is Haze powerful? Yes, duh, absolutely. But calling her an instant win, brain dead level, etc...

It's disingenuous.



Look... I get you feel a type of way about Haze and, honestly, I do understand that. It can be incredibly frustrating playing against certain heroes that we struggle against. But, it does seem as thought you may be letting your feelings bias you, because the facts and numbers simply do not support your arguments.

Seven's ultimate has much more range but is completely ignorable due to how little damage it causes. Haze's ultimate can cause more than 1k damage in 1 second if she is building correctly.

You also said that Dynamo, Bepop, and Seven activate ammunition effects, which is false. They activate spiritual damage effects, which is completely different. They will activate mystical slowdowns, for example. Haze activates toxic bullets, Tesla bullets, and ricochets, which are much more stolen than causing slowdowns.

Yes, Haze can be seen up close with her invisibility, but if she is close to you, there is no reason for her to remain invisible. She will start shooting at you and using her skills, and she gains 6 move speed, and also gains +30% ballistic steal, it's almost a leech, it basically receives the effect of a 6200 item when leveling up its skill.

You also said that any character can reach 100+ ammo, which is also false, most characters even with a titanic cartridge do not exceed 50-60, while Haze can reach 150 without even using the titanic cartridge, the only character who can have the same amount of ammo as Haze is McGinner and Wraith who already start with a lot of ammo but they will have to buy items that only serve to increase ammo, while Haze increases passively with spiritual power, which she will gain from any spiritual item she buys, which opens up an extra slot for her since she will not have to spend on ammo enhancement items.

 

[IgorNL]

Haze is the most played character in the game and also has the highest winrate in the game, there is no way to say that this character is balanced, if he was not unbalanced he would not have such a high pickrate and winrate.

 

[IgorNL]

If you play 100 games, 97 will have haze.

 

[IgorNL]

The fact that her ultimate causes ballistic damage is what makes her so strong in the late game, with glass cannon and lucky shot she can increase the damage of her ultimate by more than 200% with just these 2 items, Seven's ultimate is strong but doesn't even come close to this scaling. And she can still apply silence and other items with her ultimate that make her uncounterable. And she can walk with her ultimate on, Seven has a larger area but he stays still, you can go behind a wall and that's it but Haze can follow you with her ultimate.

 

[Sir Gamer]

Literally how do you come to the conclusion that Haze is apparently some OP powerful god queen... but Seven is fine? Also Seven has a non skill-shot stun, again. Same as Wraith. Is Haze powerful? Yes, duh, absolutely. But calling her an instant win, brain dead level, etc...

I also find this interesting. If the stat tracking websites are correct, Seven is close to being an absolute winrate champion in all elo tiers, and he was hanging this high (heh) for quite some time already. While Haze is way below, and even goes below average in the higher elo.

I think this perception aberration is caused by the differences in observability aka the slowly boiled frog effect. When Seven slowly (but steadily) zaps you to death in lane and/or teamfights, it feels fair and reasonable, and there's enough time to react... you think, until your health is gone. But Haze? She goes all in your face, with bells and whistles singing "die die die".

Haze ... has the highest winrate in the game

Can you source this please?

 

[IgorNL]

Become invisible, jump in the middle of 6 players, press 4 and that's it, easy win, 6 free kills. Your ultimate still has a 50% chance to ignore enemy shots.

 

[IgorNL]

I also find this interesting. If the stat tracking websites are correct, Seven is close to being an absolute winrate champion in all elo tiers, and he was hanging this high (heh) for quite some time already. While Haze is way below, and even goes below average in the higher elo.

I think this perception aberration is caused by the differences in observability aka the slowly boiled frog effect. When Seven slowly (but steadily) zaps you to death in lane and/or teamfights, it feels fair and reasonable, and there's enough time to react... you think, until your health is gone. But Haze? She goes all in your face, with bells and whistles singing "die die die".


Can you source this please?

Tracklock, it stopped being updated on day 2, but she was already in the top winrate and pickrate, now it should be even higher with the nerfs on other characters and her remaining untouched.

 

[IgorNL]

Some time ago she wasn't so annoying, but with constant nerfs on other characters and her remaining without any nerfs it made her increasingly difficult to fight since all the other characters are getting weaker and weaker while she remains strong, that's what put her at the top of the rankings.

 

[Sir Gamer]

Tracklock, it stopped being updated on day 2, but she was already in the top winrate and pickrate, now it should be even higher with the nerfs on other characters and her remaining untouched.

Tracklock says that in the span of last 2 weeks Haze's winrate was way lower than that of Seven's, and the winrate falls of in high elos. So basically exactly what I've said in the previous post.

So how do you know her current winrate if the tracking is currently frozen? Sorry but being angry is not a good argument.

For the unaware, small differences in winrate translates to huge disparity in effective power (the ability to contribute to the victory). Haze's 53% winrate translates to 136% hero power, while Seven's 58% winrate translates to 196% hero power. Clearly it's Seven who deserves the first-priority outrage, and yet outside the ult shenanigans, somehow he attracts almost no attention.

 

[mrxlongshot]

Dynamo, Seven, McGinnis, BeBop, just to name a few off the top of my head...

Interesting fact, none of the heroes ults truly work the same as any other skill in the game.

That's... the point. They're unique.

Nothing is unique when you benefit entirely from building attack speed + on hit effects then all she has to do is pop an unstoppable with a silencer and its lights out for anyone in range. At least when it comes to Seven/Mcginnis/Dynamo/Bebop they expose themselves to damage and have to actually land their ultimates minus seven since he just has to be vertical but he cant move while doing it so the chase is on the team. If her ultimate was a spirit scaling skill then were would a case point cause haze can snowball even harder with on hit debuffs while using glass cannon + leech and no amount of healing debuff will stop that kinda outheal. The guy you're talking to might be getting a little to in his emotions about the haze/Wraith comparison but in no way is her kit hard to use sure anyone with fundamentally low skills or new to moba wont make good of any character. The idea is that if you have two brain cells shes just as bad as those with one button stuns cause she actually has a point of no return when it comes to end game.

 

[why_me1]

the biggest issue I think is her ulti beeing aoe. which makes the whole "shes an assassin, catching people off guard" etc. obsolete.
If it would be same as it is, but single target aimbot instead, it would fit the assassin part more in my opinion.

That she only has to build gun damage and her complete kit is focused on it makes her item choices and damage ramp up very easy compared to other champions.

 

[dictum53]

haze will never fall off, this hero is literal anti-mage like hero, weak at the start, she just farm and avoid fighting, farm and farm jungle, buy all her kit and unstoppable(item like bkb), if the game doesnt end by that point, you already lose the game.

fighting a good haze is like fighting against time.

you see haze in enemy team, just end the game as fast as possible.

but seriously, nerf haze ult.

A big part of the problem is that ricochet is just an outright stupid item. with it, I can hit 4 targets with 1 shot. Which is utterly riddiculous.
Add tier 3 bullet dance to this, plus the fact that the rico makes it hit beyond it's radius, and you got the core of the problem with this ability.
That and the fact that it scales of the same stat that her single target damage scales of, fire rate.
Finally the fact that she only needs to buy fire rate. Everyone else needs to buy a mix of FR, damage and ammo, she only needs to focus one of those.

 

[Wesley Grey Talon]

Hey... you know there's this neat thing called "Gameplay Feedback" on these forums, right?
You know, the place where you can give the devs direct feedback. The place they asked us to use instead of biasing others' opinions and creating an echo chamber..
They read those forums. I promise. Trying to stir up rage is exactly what they don't want and how you will be ignored by them.