General game complaint and Haze from 300 hr "High-MMR" player.

[Matty x.x]

Yeah but youre not really describing the problem in a good way. Feedback is better when its more coherent.

Like your complaint on soul rebirth can basically be summed up by saying.

Soul Rebirth Feedback:

"Hey Valve, I think Soul Rebirth having a 2-minute cooldown is overpowered if purchased early. It essentially gives players two lives at any point in the game, which feels broken."

Or

Haze Feedback:

"Hey Valve, Haze being able to activate Silencer during her ultimate is problematic. It turns into a massive AoE silence with heavy damage potential, which feels unfair."


But hey if youre typing to valve the same way youre typing in this thread, then im pretty sure its gonna sound just like incoherent rambling to them as well. Also im pretty sure 60% of the stuff you wrote can be excluded from the discussion and make your post sound more coherent but hey you still included them anyway.

Also your remark about Soul Rebirth, it's worth noting that investing 6k early for the item is rarely seen in high MMR games. It’s not considered a viable strategy, as there are usually better early-game investments. So idk what bracket youre in.

If you think I simply complained about Haze and her AoE for the whole post then you didn't read. And my post about Soul Rebirth was a couple more sentences so, not sure why you even included that, but thanks. It's nice you atleast were constructive with your criticism.

 

[Matty x.x]

soul rebirth is bad on design. No stats high cd and forces you to play save or die for a team, hoping nothing goes wrong. People just nuke you on respawn in most cases, you need a lot of items to not get nuked right away.
Haze design is too cost effective to exist in this setting. Either everybody can scale so much as she is or nobody. She is in every game right now.

Why did they just nerf it this patch if it's already bad as it is? I guarantee you it will be used more and more just like other items started to be. 6,200 souls is nothing in this kind of game, the soul generation is insane, especially if you use the gimmick method of soul duplication which already gets abused because of the insane min-maxing people do. I could agree that half the time you'll die when reviving, but for the other half it's been extremely useful, it's best used when you are ahead for the more rare times you die and are a vital member of your team.

 

[pakshin55]

Why did they just nerf it this patch if it's already bad as it is? I guarantee you it will be used more and more just like other items started to be. 6,200 souls is nothing in this kind of game, the soul generation is insane, especially if you use the gimmick method of soul duplication which already gets abused because of the insane min-maxing people do. I could agree that half the time you'll die when reviving, but for the other half it's been extremely useful, it's best used when you are ahead for the more rare times you die and are a vital member of your team.

You are talking about sweating always talking high rank people, and pros. Ofc second life is worth for them however bad of an item it is. I am talking about majority of situations. In my games people just stay still when they rebirth'd due to being surrounded and few skills aimed at them before they respawn. It is a bad design due to ability for dying without consequences, in good team environment its will stay broken, even if you respawn with 1% hp and item giving you no stats. Also you can just get into invulnerable state from respawn with items or abilites, which is also annoying to play against. Idk who's idea was that.
At best it should respawn you at base with a little time window like rejuvenator, It will be okay mostly with poor stats and high cd.

 

[NaokiB2U]

To be fair I feel like Haze's "OP-ness" comes not necessarily from just her alone but from the gameplay format in general. Since quickplay has no pick/ban phase there is no way to pre-emptively stop or counter Haze. IF there was a picking phase, you could easily wait it out and see if someone picks Haze, then immediately have every teammate go pick every stunning hero available. The problem lies in that you're left at the RNG gods and in those cases you're forced to "buy item to counter or lose." Frankly I could see her getting banned often if there was a banning phase.

 

[pakshin55]

To be fair I feel like Haze's "OP-ness" comes not necessarily from just her alone but from the gameplay format in general. Since quickplay has no pick/ban phase there is no way to pre-emptively stop or counter Haze. IF there was a picking phase, you could easily wait it out and see if someone picks Haze, then immediately have every teammate go pick every stunning hero available. The problem lies in that you're left at the RNG gods and in those cases you're forced to "buy item to counter or lose." Frankly I could see her getting banned often if there was a banning phase.

You get 2-3 tier 4 items and gun down people without counter play. Also read above messages, everyone explained everything already.

 

[Matty x.x]

To be fair I feel like Haze's "OP-ness" comes not necessarily from just her alone but from the gameplay format in general. Since quickplay has no pick/ban phase there is no way to pre-emptively stop or counter Haze. IF there was a picking phase, you could easily wait it out and see if someone picks Haze, then immediately have every teammate go pick every stunning hero available. The problem lies in that you're left at the RNG gods and in those cases you're forced to "buy item to counter or lose." Frankly I could see her getting banned often if there was a banning phase.

I understand and agree that a pick/ban phase or whatever would help with Haze, but regardless this doesn't address whether she is an unfair character in the end or not, which i'm sure you know too. In the end, if something is unfair it needs to be addressed, offering ways to counterplay whether that be in-game or pre-game does not suddenly make a character fair then.

Genuinely I have only felt this way with Haze, Infernus, and Shiv. Haze obviously the biggest offender for me personally. Infernus is a massive issue if played correctly, as all 3 types of items (Yellow, Green, Purple) are all insanely good on him, in combination with his kit then of course, making his otherwise basic kit still having him turned into an absolute monster. And Shiv receives repeat nerfs which don't really address his issues, and again, when it is a good Shiv, it's real bad. This isn't really the thread for them probably but yeah, i could easily go into more detail. I would've said Kelvin too, but he got the biggest nerfs last patch.

 

[Khanzy]

The most bothersome aspects of her ultimate are the spirit scaling duration (you can literally get it upto 21 seconds and beyond) and the fact that for some reason in a game which involves mechanical skill in aiming we still have this 50% phantom assassin evasion attached to her ultimate. Tackle these and dial back Fixation stacks.

 

[Lady Briar]

The most bothersome aspects of her ultimate are the spirit scaling duration (you can literally get it upto 21 seconds and beyond) and the fact that for some reason in a game which involves mechanical skill in aiming we still have this 50% phantom assassin evasion attached to her ultimate. Tackle these and dial back Fixation stacks.

I'd agree that having the innate defense on her ult is probably overkill... especially because there's a high tier item that does that. Would it make more sense to remove the innate defense on the ult and maybe create a cheaper/weaker version of diviner's kevlar that then is a component of it?

 

[Matty x.x]

The most bothersome aspects of her ultimate are the spirit scaling duration (you can literally get it upto 21 seconds and beyond) and the fact that for some reason in a game which involves mechanical skill in aiming we still have this 50% phantom assassin evasion attached to her ultimate. Tackle these and dial back Fixation stacks.

Obviously I could say alot more but I already have in this thread. But from you've said, i've also found it really weird that she even has that passive, let alone with them buffing it. Even without it being buffed... I haven't ever really seen a more basic ability in a long time. You literally just deal more damage... for dealing damage, that's literally it. So putting this kind of an easy, great passive ability on a DPS-check character is ridiculous.

Like Abrams has a similar extremely stupid, simple passive being "Regen HP", but atleast it's nothing about dealing more damage, lol.

 

[ProbablyHigh]

With the direction the game is going (following similar path to dota and the inevitable pile of heroes to choose from) the main way to combat these imba issues is to just implement a default ban-pick hero draft as the default game mode.

This doesn't directly fix your gripes but I feel like it's the next needed step. The 3 hero setup was great in the beginning to force players to not fall into one tricking. But now that the player base has had enough time to play everything, the next logical step is to allow the curation of team composition. If my team already has two greedy carries I'd rather play something I can play a support build on.. not risk adding the third greedy carry to the mix and guaranteeing an inability to win early, etc.

edit: I realized people have already discussed this, whoops.

 

[christian01]

making a issue out of a non issue, yawn - probably same type of person who complained about seven ult

 

[why_me1]

You literally just deal more damage... for dealing damage, that's literally it.

No, on top of that you deal spirit dmg every 20 stacks to trigger spirit items and apply a slow, because why not?

E: And that basically everything on her scales with spirit is just nuts. Ammo with spirit? Get some purple items and she gets more ammo than McGinnis for free.

 

[Matty x.x]

making a issue out of a non issue, yawn - probably same type of person who complained about seven ult

Didn't even make an argument here and i never cared about seven ult but thanks, Lash poser.

 

[Lady Briar]

No, on top of that you deal spirit dmg every 20 stacks to trigger spirit items and apply a slow, because why not?

E: And that basically everything on her scales with spirit is just nuts. Ammo with spirit? Get some purple items and she gets more ammo than McGinnis for free.

Her ult damage isn't spirit based, and I think she's the only hero like that? I can't recall, though...

What on her makes her ammo scale with spirit? I knew about that, but didn't see where it was in her kit.

 

[Khanzy]

Her ult damage isn't spirit based, and I think she's the only hero like that? I can't recall, though...

What on her makes her ammo scale with spirit? I knew about that, but didn't see where it was in her kit.

Innate scaling. Kinda like how Seven gets movespeed off spirit power as well. I don't like this design. Puts these heroes far ahead of other heroes.

 

[Lady Briar]

Innate scaling. Kinda like how Seven gets movespeed off spirit power as well. I don't like this design. Puts these heroes far ahead of other heroes.

I think its also really unintuitive, too, which is always a negative in my book.

 

[why_me1]

Her ult damage isn't spirit based, and I think she's the only hero like that? I can't recall, though...

What on her makes her ammo scale with spirit? I knew about that, but didn't see where it was in her kit.

Ulti isnt spirit based, true. But alot of her kit scales with spirit power. stealh time, ulti duration and her ammo. And even though she doesnt "need" spirit power, she still want some spirit items, bullet resist shredder, cd reduction, mystic slow and maybe duration extender or reach and your ammo count goes from 25 to something like 60 or 80. (0.5 ammo per spirit power is alot)

And thats just her character, for whatever reason she is the only one dealing gun damage with her ult with an are aimbot and her ammo scales with spirit power.
No need to buy additional ammo items, Ricochet gives 35%, lucky shot 30% and now she is on 150 ammo, starting from 25 without titanic mag.

Everything on her scales way to fast compared to other heroes. No need for additional stamina, already has 3, no need for movespeed, has 8 by default and while invisible gets additional sprint speed, no need for ammo, because spirit scaling, no need for lifesteal, because leavin stealth gives 30% lifesteal for 8s.

Her gun has no spray, its all on point. You can even get Ammo scavanger and by the spirit buff of it alone sit with 40 ammo in lane instead of your 25. And when shooting 10 bullets per second you can deal a lot of damage in a short ammount of time. Especially with the passive increasing your weapon damage by 0.2 (later 0.4) per hit.

Her kit needs to be tuned down and some of her scaling needs to be removed.

 

[why_me1]

Her spirit scaling gets more insane the longer you look at it.
sleeping dagger dmg increases by 70 + 2.8x -> if ulti wasnt that broken, you could build a 800dmg dagger build that can be thrown while 24/7 stealth every few seconds.
sleeping dagger wakeup time 0.1s + 0.003x
ammo 0.5x -> why?
stealth duration 8s + 0.2x
passive damage every 20 stacks 60dmg + 0.4x
ulti duration 3s + 0.07x