PSA: This forum is not for talking about currently released (or unreleased for that matter) heroes

[narcissyphus]

Though maybe after all almost everybody has been wrong

A group of people on the internet aren't "almost everybody", not even close. If something were truly "very broken", it would be borne out in objective data like win rates, souls per minute, KDA, etc.In which case, they already know!

But if it's just a feeling of "I don't like playing against this", well, feelings are subjective and can change, can they not? I haven't even seen a consensus on anything being "very broken", if anything the consensus as far as I gather is that the game is pretty balanced, with just a few very strong characters.

How old are you? All of your comments are so whiny and hyperbolic. if I wanted to stoop down to your level, I could just as easily say that "almost everyone" agrees with this, judging by the responses you get. But I wouldn't do that, because i'm not a dumbass.

 

[rays1712]

WHY YOU WANT TO SILENCE US OP!!
WHAT IS IT THAT YOURE HIDING!!
WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANNA CENSOR!!

Just kidding, people still gonna post here anyway, they want to discuss what their thought.
But to be honest, they need to make new public sub forum called "Complaint Box"

If its not here, where else, probably Community clips? Wait people also already do that, lmao.

 

[jakechiodi]

This forum is solely for people to post their own ideas for new heroes, not for people to flood with threads about the random substanceless balance complaint of the day.

There are people putting time and effort into creating ideas for new heroes, new abilities, or even just creating cool art for their hero ideas (outside of the AI slop), and they get buried by people posting nonsense that doesn't belong here.

If you want to relay thoughts about specific heroes to the devs, you go to this forum, then select the sub-forum that corresponds to the hero you want to talk about, and then create a thread there about your hero opinions.

Those forums are all privated, so it looks like there's nothing there, but it's set up so that only you and the official developers can see your threads, so they will still be able to read your thoughts and opinions just as well as they could here, it just won't be pushing away other people's content that actually belongs here.

Yes, I realise that my post is off-topic as well, but currently more than half of the first page is taken up by threads that don't belong here, so clearly people need something a bit clearer about where to post.

Finally someone says it.

 

[jakechiodi]

Yeah i'm aware, me and others have already made posts in those sections. However, these are forums and people want to have public discussions whether that be in agreement or the opposite.

Moderators do nothing about these so called "wrong" posts even though random members complain about it, so clearly they either don't care or are fine with it. Instead, i'd rather you suggest to them more sections such as "General" or "General-Hero specific" for example. Until then, people will clearly be using this as something like a general for heroes.

You could always just not look at the posts too, instead of being something like a pseudo-moderator like others like to be. Besides, where else do you want people to have their voices heard in a public setting with others that agree? Discord? Lol, good luck with that cancerous cesspool.

Or you can just keep to your circle and not flood the forum for community characters with your own personal balance issues.
It's disrespectful to the community.

 

[Jokerx71]

This forum is solely for people to post their own ideas for new heroes, not for people to flood with threads about the random substanceless balance complaint of the day.

There are people putting time and effort into creating ideas for new heroes, new abilities, or even just creating cool art for their hero ideas (outside of the AI slop), and they get buried by people posting nonsense that doesn't belong here.

If you want to relay thoughts about specific heroes to the devs, you go to this forum, then select the sub-forum that corresponds to the hero you want to talk about, and then create a thread there about your hero opinions.

Those forums are all privated, so it looks like there's nothing there, but it's set up so that only you and the official developers can see your threads, so they will still be able to read your thoughts and opinions just as well as they could here, it just won't be pushing away other people's content that actually belongs here.

Yes, I realise that my post is off-topic as well, but currently more than half of the first page is taken up by threads that don't belong here, so clearly people need something a bit clearer about where to post.

I think this is because it doesn't feel like there is a real place for it. I understand they have created private space for this feedback, but an important part of a forum and giving public feedback is seeing how many other players feel the same way or how players will feel differently etc. So as a result people dont post in those private sections and instead post here.

 

[jakechiodi]

I think mentally it feels better for everyone to atleast believe there voices are being heard around others instead of a 1-post dead thread that only you can see, as there are surely a ton of other posts of complaints privately, it's very likely they don't even look at most of them. Also, when people band together, complain enough about the same thing, that's generally the best way to have changes be made in basically all aspects of life.

Also I think the pseudo-mod shit is straight cringe too, they don't even contribute anything to majority of posts, it's just something like "Erm, this is meant for a different section, thanks! <3" like they are being super snarky, actively trying to be this emoji

Like the guy said, those one post sections are what get heard the most.
And those people aren't trying to or are supposed to contribute anything to off topic posts, they're trying to get rid of those post.

 

[jakechiodi]

A few general thoughts on the discussion that's going on:

1) This is more just a PSA to people who might no know where to post certain things, there's a lot of random threads with very little substance being posted here about specific hero stuff that just doesn't belong, so it's easy to come to the conclusion that maybe it's because they just don't realise where they're supposed to go.

Afterall, the correct places are at the bottom of the forums with a big fat PRIVATE next to them, which to many would imply that it's just for the developers or that they don't have access to it.

Also, let's be honest, a lot of people just straight up don't read rules and the rules are vague in the first place.

2) The developers absolutely do read your threads in the private forums, quite a few of mine have even had Yoshi respond, and some features in my suggestions have even made it into the game (though obviously that's highly unlikely to be because of me and others likely suggested similar things), I think they're more actively looking at those threads than they are these ones, so if people cared about having their voices heard by the right people, I'd rather direct them to the best place possible.

3)The reason the developers didn't want people sharing their thoughts about the current game balance publicly is because it's a quick way to get into a bit of a group think situation, where a lot of people are saying something, therefore it must be true, therefore I will also believe that rather than trying it out for myself and making my own conclusions, giving feedback based on what others are telling me rather than what may or may not be true.

There's also the benefit of a private forum allowing you to share your opinions without being shouted down by that very same mob because you don't agree with their conclusion.

Now, you might say that most of that last point is moot now that people are allowed to publicy discuss the game, and I somewhat agree and think they should have a more public set of sub-forums forums even if the developers will likely pay less attention to those, but until the developers add a more public set of sub-forums, I'm still going to assume that their wishes are the same and that people should do their best to abide by that.

4) I don't know how much experience you have with forums, but the majority of people absolutely do not look at any page beyond the first. So it's very easy for things to quickly get buried and get no eyes on them whatsoever, which could be very disheartening to someone who puts a bunch of effort into coming up with a new hero kit that gets seen by 3 people after being pushed to the second page because a bunch of others posted another 10 variations of one line "Haze OP, nerf her" threads.

5) Honestly the discussion here isn't that much better than the "cesspool" discord, there are hero specific threads on there that are usually pretty ok discussion if you need some form of social discussion, but a lot of the people here aren't particularly better, there's just as many idiots who you can tell know nothing from the posts they make as there are people who make genuine, well-reasoned posts.

I 100% agree with this. And point 4 speaks to me so much. I come here to experience the community's creativity and share my creativity with the community, yet there's two Wraith discussions on the first page along with other discussions dedicated to characters already in the game.

 

[narcissyphus]

I think this is because it doesn't feel like there is a real place for it. I understand they have created private space for this feedback, but an important part of a forum and giving public feedback is seeing how many other players feel the same way or how players will feel differently etc. So as a result people dont post in those private sections and instead post here.

Valve did this deliberately to avoid groupthink. If you want your feedback heard, rather than just create a circle jerk, then use the proper channel.

Otherwise, go make a post on reddit and see how popular your sentiment really is.

 

[jakechiodi]

"A ton of us are having the same sentiment on a champion being broken, but apparently it must still be false even though the majority agree, because someone from the alleged "high-elo" made a post or made a high elo youtube video on the tier list"

I also believe that it's much more important to have a fair and relatively balanced game where they finally do something about an item/character that so many people complain about, compared to yet another champion idea that probably isn't good. People aren't just not seeing the champion idea posts, they simply don't care about them, because honestly like you said, alot of people are idiots. There are some nice champion ideas, but most simply don't make sense, wouldn't be balanced, etc. Most of them don't even get a reply, and that's not because people make a thread on "Haze OP, please nerf". Clearly people care more about that than yet another mediocre champion idea.

If that's what you believe then simply just get out of the forum dedicated to community heroes.

 

[jakechiodi]

Ok, and I have over 300 hours in, so clearly by your logic that is invalid, sorry.

Wow, you have a very terrible attitude.

 

[jakechiodi]

Ok thanks for calling me dumbass lmao. Your argument never made sense. You seem to think that people are somehow being brainwashed, people simply agree with eachother on a public forum or wherever else. I think the real "dumbass" would be someone who instantly takes someone else's opinion as fact before even playing a couple matches which is apparently what you believe is happening all the time.

People have experienced enough matches and have the same sentiment, tons of people have made the same posts I have about the same characters time and time again, but you can just call it some form of groupthink brainwashing ritual. We are all playing the same game experiencing the same bullshit. But thanks, I agree my opinion is valid. You know why it's so frustruating to so many people? Because it is unfair to play against. It isn't the same type of frustrating as a Mo and Krill ult holding me for 7 seconds, because I don't think it's broken compared to other characters.

You're clearly not getting the point of what people are trying to tell you with the whole groupthink thing and biases.

 

[jakechiodi]

My entire point was that it's frustrating but not broken, compared to other things that are frustrating and indeed very broken, which is why people have complained about certain characters way more than any others. Though maybe after all almost everybody has been wrong and it's just a bandwagon because they want be cool, you are very smart for citing wikipedia articles, lmfao.

Who's to say what people complain to be broken is actually broken? What if those people just suck at the game?

 

[jakechiodi]

WHY YOU WANT TO SILENCE US OP!!
WHAT IS IT THAT YOURE HIDING!!
WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANNA CENSOR!!

Just kidding, people still gonna post here anyway, they want to discuss what their thought.
But to be honest, they need to make new public sub forum called "Complaint Box"

If its not here, where else, probably Community clips? Wait people also already do that, lmao.

People shouldn't be able to post whatever they want here. This is for community characters, nothing else. Everyone posting off topic should be punished.

 

[jakechiodi]

I think this is because it doesn't feel like there is a real place for it. I understand they have created private space for this feedback, but an important part of a forum and giving public feedback is seeing how many other players feel the same way or how players will feel differently etc. So as a result people dont post in those private sections and instead post here.

If it were all public then that would just create more conflict, as i already noticed has and is happening.
Not to mention dishonest feedback.

 

[rays1712]

People shouldn't be able to post whatever they want here. This is for community characters, nothing else. Everyone posting off topic should be punished.

Thats the thing, theres no public off-topic, nor public complaint box, no public current hero discussion(only private hero complain)

People want to discuss, the same mentality as people want to take out trash, but no trash can nor garbago bin nor litter box, hence people litter on the street.

 

[jakechiodi]

Thats the thing, theres no public off-topic, nor public complaint box, no public current hero discussion(only private hero complain)

People want to discuss, the same mentality as people want to take out trash, but no trash can nor garbago bin nor litter box, hence people litter on the street.

That's a horrible analogy honestly. But if that's true then that just makes those people look like even bigger jerks. Littering is bad and those who do it should be banned.
Not to mention that they can just go on the Discord.
In fact, now that i have added Discord to this allow me to add to your analogy.
What those people are doing is throwing trash on the floor of an art exposition when they can just go to the next building to throw out their garbage?
Do you know how unpolite and disrespectful it is for people to throw garbage on the floor of an art exposition when they can just go to a different building instead?

 

[rays1712]

Thats the thing, theres no off-topic, nor complaint box, no public current hero discussion(only private hero complain)

People want to discuss, the same mentality as people want to take out trash, but no trash can nor garbago bin nor litter box, hence people litter on the street.

That's a horrible analogy honestly. But if that's true then that just makes those people look like even bigger jerks. Littering is bad and those who do it should be banned.

The goverment should make a dump site and garbage bin on the road.

They make art museum, sport centre, football stadium, but not a single garbage bin anywhere in the town, suddenly its people fault for the trash appearing where it shouldnt belong and want to put people in jail for it.

Thats bad.

 

[rays1712]

I mean, people do bad, i dont justify their action, but the goverment should also provide what people need.

 

[narcissyphus]

The goverment should make a dump site and garbage bin on the road.

They make art museum, sport centre, football stadium, but not a single garbage bin anywhere in the town, suddenly its people fault for the trash appearing where it shouldnt belong and want to put people in jail for it.

Thats bad.

Actually no, that's 100% on the people littering. In Japan there are almost no public garbage cans, and the public garbages that exist are small, and yet the country is extremely clean.

Why? Because the people respect public space.

Valve created these forums for a purpose and they've laid out they're reasoning which we've tried to elaborate. If you want to provide feedback, use the private threads. Public balance discussions go against the use case of the forums so they're not obligated to provide that for you, especially when such avenues already exists elsewhere, like on Reddit.

 

[jakechiodi]

The goverment should make a dump site and garbage bin on the road.

They make art museum, sport centre, football stadium, but not a single garbage bin anywhere in the town, suddenly its people fault for the trash appearing where it shouldnt belong and want to put people in jail for it.

Thats bad.

I edit my post but i will copy/paste it here.
They can just go on the Discord.
In fact, now that i have added Discord to this allow me to add to your analogy.
What those people are doing is throwing trash on the floor of an art exposition when they can just go to the next building to throw out their garbage?
Do you know how unpolite and disrespectful it is for people to throw garbage on the floor of an art exposition when they can just go to a different building instead?
And yes i do blame the people throwing around trash because they're not even at the right place to begin with.
But thanks for admitting all of the off topic discussions are trash.