offsetcyan
Active member
Yeah, they fly at reasonable speeds and the tp is slow with a long cooldown. It's great.
Anyone else getting bored of the heroes?
- Thread starter narcissyphus
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Amni3D
Member
OP needs to understand that f2p PvP fans are often hostile to competing games. Once you made a comparison to something like League of Legends, you got a lot of bad faith discussion.
People arguing that stacked mobility would ruin the game are forgetting Deadlock has stacked dashes + lower cooldowns for active mobility items, followed by an abundance of CC abilities and items (that aren't very expensive either).
A lot of these posts are also going straight to name calling and making fights personal. It's insane.
People arguing that stacked mobility would ruin the game are forgetting Deadlock has stacked dashes + lower cooldowns for active mobility items, followed by an abundance of CC abilities and items (that aren't very expensive either).
A lot of these posts are also going straight to name calling and making fights personal. It's insane.
Amni3D
Member
Vindicta's flight can be cancelled acting as Majestic Leap while having a very short cooldown mid to late game, leading to a vocal minority insisting she should be nerfed- but that doesn't mean it's difficult to play against or bad for the game. Reasonable speeds and long cooldowns are not a consistent trend across the board and people are (largely) fine with it as long as it's presented 10% differently.
We've had points in time where we got broken movement builds where you zip zoom any time you want, but they never really posed that much of a threat because there's the surrounding context of the game itself.
narcissyphus
Active member
I really don't think you can lay the blame on f2p pvp games, I've played all the MOBAs and hero shooters, posted on all the communities.
And it needs be said that the Valve/Dota community specifically set the precent for nerd elitism.
trackpadchad
Member
I'm surprised that Viscous doesn't tick all of the boxes for you. There is so much depth to this silly little guy that I'm still learning new things even after one tricking him for 100-ish hours (I forget to close the game, so my playtime is guesstimated). Pretty much every ability of his can be used creatively for both movement and combat.
Splatter's T3 has a low skill floor, but a high skill ceiling. You can use Cube to provide cover for teammates or as a stepping stone, you can put puddle punches on it, you can body block with it, it slides off slopes, it buffs mobility and purges debuffs, Splatter bounces off of it without using any bounces, you can use it right before getting melee'd so it pushes you away from danger, you can use it to pause the fight in order to assess the situation, etc. Puddle Punch lets you position yourself, allies, creeps, and enemies, and there is a massive list of interactions because it behaves the same for all players. I don't think I need to explain Goo Ball; that thing is notoriously difficult to use (though, it's been easier with the range buff and hitreg improvements).
Anyways, my point is that what you've described fits the motto of Viscous. There's so much you can do with him compared to the other high mobility characters that they start to feel rigid. Here's some clips of me getting away with being behind, and I am very much an average, sloppy player.
View attachment Sun Zoo-1.mp4
The punch at the end here wasn't a fumbled puddle boost, I was just unsure if they were right behind me.
View attachment juked.mp4
Technically I died shortly after in the clip above, but that's because I got greedy
View attachment ballin.mp4
I was in full panic mode here after the game ignored my alt cast button and cubed Pocket
narcissyphus
Active member
Personally it's not enough for there to be complexity + one mobility skill.
The kind of mobility I want is integral to a hero's combat style, like Tracer blinking around. She can blink to get around the map faster, but the primary use case is for juking & bamboozling purposes. Let me put it this way -- If Magician's ult was the Frog and that basic ability was replaced with a blink, he'd be exactly what i'm looking for.
Don't get me wrong, Viscous is a very unique and interesting character, I just can't get down with the ult, I dislike how it feels.
This is a recurring problem, there's often one ability that just feels bad to use IMO and it's a turn-off. You can say i'm picky, but I don't have this problem in other MOBAS / hero shooters.
gibnewitems
Active member
I would unironically main this hero. Icefrog please.
trackpadchad
Member
Technically three mobility skills. There's... a lot to Viscous because all his abilities use the physics engine.
If you pay attention to the clips, I actually use puddle punch primarily for juking and bamboozling. I get what you mean, though.
The disconnect you see between this game and other modern movement shooters is that modern games have moved further away from Quake-based physics, which means Deadlock is more about momentum and prediction than snappy direction changes. Something that I always hated about Overwatch is that there is no acceleration to your movement, which meant that the skill floor for juking was much lower than aiming. Heroes/champs like Tracer draw a lot of hate because there is very little effort or risk required for them to move around compared to the effort required to fight back. If you inevitably compare that to Scout tf2, he is forced to move in predictable patterns in order to play effectively (if you ignore how stupid random crits are).
That being said, I think you might get a few kicks out of Stand Canceling. If you crouch > dash > release crouch mid-dash, then it will immediately cancel the dash, and you can rapidly chain dashes together. It's pretty funny for characters like Ivy/Viper because they have high innate movespeed and stamina, and do not move slower when shooting.
Also, that is completely understandable. The ball can easily shift from S-tier to complete garbage in a split second depending on the whims of the map geometry.
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narcissyphus
Active member
That's a stretch.
I know what you're saying, but imo punching yourself around in fights just to juke doesn't feel good the way an ability that's designed for juking would.
You're not going to win a duel just from a-d spamming above plat, especially after the recent projectile size increase. All squishies strafe in duels so it's not like one person is getting an advantage over the other, movement is just part of aiming in Overwatch.
I don't think Tracer "draws a lot of hate", she's long been the yard-stick for balance, and this is borne out in her averaged win-rate across ranks being right in the middle (and it's below 50%, increasing with rank post-Plat). Her whole shtick is being evasive, but she's very easily shut down. There are many ways to one-shot her, if not with a quick melee.
Will try this tonight.
trackpadchad
Member
It ain't. There's a lot of interesting bug/features with Cube due to how it overrides movement states. It moves in the direction of the last slope you stood on, but this property doesn't update until you touch the ground, which lets you use certain items/abilities in order to turn yourself into a cruise missile. For Goo Ball, activating it resets your jumps, so with Superior Stamina you can quintuple jump into to bonk flying pests. Also, those who can't use it well in combat tend to use Goo Ball to escape and/or rotate.
I quit Overwatch a long time ago; what I said was a lot more accurate in its first few years. It was less of a problem above plat because that's the skill level where people can aim really well, but the fun of the average Joe shouldn't be disregarded. Tracer was hated less compared to other swarmers like Genji (if you do some digging, you'll find most of the complaints about Tracer in average elo or below. Also some top players REALLY hated her), but the lack of skill floor or commitment to movement is partially why the game originally devolved into a slog of barriers and hard CC spam.
I did hear that they made hitreg more generous, and I think that's a healthy change. The gunplay always felt kinda bad unless you were willing to risk RSI.
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narcissyphus
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League of Legends is the best
Riot best companygeneralgreenbowers
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Someone else knows about natural selection? Based based based
Nvakagames
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HMC takes skill and knowledge to pull off and use effectively. There's a reason people practice movement in a game like this- it's to do this.
trackpadchad
Member
I wouldn't exactly say it takes skill to pull off, it only takes an hour or two to get it nailed down; it is no more difficult than dash jumping. You do need good movement, positioning, and awareness to get the full value out of it, though.
trackpadchad
Member
Speaking as someone who played a lot of HLDM back when people actually played it, HLDM and CS2 are polar opposites. Counter Strike is defined by its grounded movement due to how moving reduces accuracy. HLDM is basically Quake, but somehow more chaotic. I miss the tau cannon so much...
This is actually a good point that a lot of people in this thread ignored. Most of the heroes' kits feel like they are just ported versions of existing archetypes from other hero shooters or MOBAs; they're not exactly bad, but they don't really explore what is possible in a MOBA Shooter.
The few characters that stand out to me as being unique to a MOBA Shooter are the Hero Labs characters, Viscous, Kelvin, and somewhat McGinnis. They're heroes that feel like you couldn't fully port them back to a MOBA or a Hero Shooter, and they have the feeling of experimentation that Overwatch used to have before they completely lost the plot with short-sighted, bone-headed balance changes and hero designs.
GangGildedGhillieGoldenGodfried
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warp stone + phantom strike
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