Terrible punishment system

[bebo1]

I love these special snowflakes, first devs get rid of their trashing presence then of course next thing they come whining to forums that they're victims and then they argue that everyone else is wrong.

Good riddance and I hope your bans will pass onto full release. If anything, showing this thread to devs should be good argument toward doing so since special snowflakes clearly learnt nothing and never will.

I could have written this post the way special snowflakes could understand, calling them r-, f-, n- words on the way but there's no need for us to lower ourself to their level.

unfortunately, your sweet fantasies will not be realized. It's the same situation as the Beta Dota. Developers will make concessions for the sake of toxic players, just because they give them income

xd

 

[Feralun]

I wonder what games you've played that don't have toxicity? (mario, tetris?). The way you're talking, it sounds like you're hoping to get a medal from the developers.
Name at least one game where your actions (reporting and messing with players) helped. I don't like the fact that underneath the posts of whining toxics who write that they got banned, there are people who played tetris and say how bad it is to be toxic ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch. When you read that, you realize that people don't understand how games work.

Dota, CS (on servers, probably before your time), MMoRPGs

If you want specifics.
Yes Dota is toxic, yes every report helps.
Toxicity goes down by a lot.

Im a very very long time dota Player, played in higher brackets, played in lower brackers, played some amatuer tournaments, and all I can tell you. Toxic people wont get far, sure there are streamers who wont get banned, but every time I get a "we've recently take actions against a player" is more than every rank win, cause I know that someone I reported got banned!

So yeah, cant really talk for kiwi, but I can talk for the majority, reports help, at least in decent games. I know that COD for example does not give a shit, about toxicity in general. thats why im muted there, easy as that. Mute button exist for a reason, so I dont have to hear how "better" you are cause your only terminology consists of slurs and insults.

tldr.
toxicity sucks, try to be friendly, it helps in games, and in your private life as well :*

 

[Dezvul]

I wonder what games you've played that don't have toxicity? (mario, tetris?). The way you're talking, it sounds like you're hoping to get a medal from the developers.
Name at least one game where your actions (reporting and messing with players) helped. I don't like the fact that underneath the posts of whining toxics who write that they got banned, there are people who played tetris and say how bad it is to be toxic ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch. When you read that, you realize that people don't understand how games work.

To be fair kiwi gaming didn't say he didn't see toxicity in games, he said "Were there toxic people in my games? Sure!" They weren't making an argument that there isn't toxicity in the games they play, to say that they are is a strawman argument. Instead, the argument I see them making is that most people aren't toxic, that's my experience too.

One common argument I see made against the point that "most players aren't toxic" is the argument that "everybody has a toxic moment that can get them banned, so everybody is still in danger, and the punishment is too extreme for something that can target anyone." I simply don't agree with that either. I think there are plenty of people out there who have played a lot and never flamed someone such that they'd be considered toxic, sure everybody has moments of frustration but not everybody takes it out on others and gets very confrontational about it.

In that regard it sure sounds like projecting to me: For a person to say if they ban toxic people like that then the game will be dead. Saying such is making the assumption, at the very least, that the overwhelming population of the game exhibit this toxic behavior.

 

[Judopunch]

To be fair kiwi gaming didn't say he didn't see toxicity in games, he said "Were there toxic people in my games? Sure!" They weren't making an argument that there isn't toxicity in the games they play, to say that they are is a strawman argument. Instead, the argument I see them making is that most people aren't toxic, that's my experience too.

One common argument I see made against the point that "most players aren't toxic" is the argument that "everybody has a toxic moment that can get them banned, so everybody is still in danger, and the punishment is too extreme for something that can target anyone." I simply don't agree with that either. I think there are plenty of people out there who have played a lot and never flamed someone such that they'd be considered toxic, sure everybody has moments of frustration but not everybody takes it out on others and gets very confrontational about it.

In that regard it sure sounds like projecting to me: For a person to say if they ban toxic people like that then the game will be dead. Saying such is making the assumption, at the very least, that the overwhelming population of the game exhibit this toxic behavior.

Well said.

Anecdotally, FFXIV has a 0 tolerance policy for harassment. The ONE TIME in 6+ years I got toxic, mostly due to a game system that people were botting to exploit, I got put in 'gm timeout' where the GM abducts you and gives you a direct warning. I don't know how many strikes you actually get, however FFXIV is stupidly popular and I have almost never had a bad experience, even doing pick up groups for raiding.

Its a privilege to playtest in the alpha, no matter what people are saying. If you cant control yourself to the point your being reported and ban'd for your behavior thats the Devs decision (one I happen to agree with). I dont agree that it should be a one and done thing, people get frustrated and have a bad day or game. However, time and time again people that make threads like this as well as the people who believe they weren't 'that bad' have been shown to be, in fact, that bad with a long history of being 'toxic'. Watching GM's pull chatlogs from LoL, CS, or any other games and showing what the player was actually doing really shows how detached from reality people are when it comes to appropriate behavior.

Ironically, there is a large subset of people who just get frustrated because they dont know what to do and feel helpless. So they blame the things they see others doing wrong. They don't see how many stupid mistakes they are making that are as bad or worse.

I face palm every time someone gets ganked, and blames their team for not 'Calling MIA'. There is a minimap that you should be watching almost as much if not more often then anything else on your screen.

Just last night someone first died during a teamfight, then flamed everyone because a wave was crashing into our tower and took it. I don't usually argue with people but the conversation went like this:
Them: WTF Why TF isnt someone pushing that wave?
Me: 'that wave has been building and pushing for at least a minute to minute and a half. I assume you just now noticed or if it was so important to you you would have cleared it then when you were down there'.
Them: 'if you noticed it was pushing why didnt you get it'?!
Me: 'I made a choice where my time (hero) was going to be most valued and we lost the fight, it happens, but im not blaming anyone else because I knew what was happening. That said lets all be more vocal and organized so we can manage them better'

After that everyone was actually a bit more talkative and organized who was catching waves a little better over voice coms. (BTW, one of the most important parts of the game people are not getting is wave management, its like crazy important)

We shouldnt be perfect, nor should we be expected to be, but we should try to be kind to eachother. If someone is having a bad game and lashes out you can, ignore it, be positive, if its bad enough report it, or just accept the person is frustrated and confused and go on with your day. Dont feed frustration and anger with frustration and anger. It wont make you or anyone else happy.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

If it was getting canned, we'd never hear of it, the only reason they do this is to see what the playerbase thinks, and everyone loves Valve so it'll be a massive hit regardless. I never heard of it until I got the playtest invite, Im sure most people hadnt heard of it either. Isnt the point of playtest to test the game? How does that work if you ban people for pretty minor toxicity in an online game where thats just....the normal?

the 1 thing you need to learn from this. because there are dozens of posts likethis. is that that attitude does not corelate to playtest. you want to grind online game for virtual fulfilment over trying to break the game so to speak.

 

[Dashiell]

unfortunately, your sweet fantasies will not be realized. It's the same situation as the Beta Dota. Developers will make concessions for the sake of toxic players, just because they give them income

xd

This is your past and future kid

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

unfortunately, your sweet fantasies will not be realized. It's the same situation as the Beta Dota. Developers will make concessions for the sake of toxic players, just because they give them income

xd

someone told me of this post. you are aware its valve. what income do they need?

 

[Flav]

Valve's right do however they see fit with the game. If you're banned, you're banned and you need to get over it.
However, I will say that the people who advocate and celebrate for this type of punishment are worse than the toxic people themselves.
Played enough CS and WoW to know that they are the most passive-aggressive you'd ever play with and they're generally not a pleasant teammate to have around either. There are a couple in this very thread.

 

[kcenol]

This is not the first time this has happened. I have to play with randoms because my friends were permanently banned (for toxicity) without any warning. Anyone who left the match will only be penalized for an hour and they can continue to do so. But players who write bad character messages and spam pauses will be banned immediately and permanently. The developers need to abolish the pernamet ban for toxicity, because what is happening in the game now is very illogical. Add at least the ability to unban, reputation system, anything you can think of, but certainly not completely deprive the ability to play the game.

View attachment 14913

I agree with this person, devs please reconsider the punishments for players who got permanent ban not for using cheats, please pay attention to us, it's really unfair to ban people permanently just for toxic chat message, when other players will just play few games with low priority or will be banned from chat and won't be able to write in it, please change your punishment and instead of permanent ban give the same games in low priority or ban game chat, we will play those games and take the blame, but I feel like permanent ban is too harsh because of toxicity in chat.

 

[hiddenace]

I agree with this person, devs please reconsider the punishments for players who got permanent ban not for using cheats, please pay attention to us, it's really unfair to ban people permanently just for toxic chat message, when other players will just play few games with low priority or will be banned from chat and won't be able to write in it, please change your punishment and instead of permanent ban give the same games in low priority or ban game chat, we will play those games and take the blame, but I feel like permanent ban is too harsh because of toxicity in chat.

Totally agree, just for toxic or reporting people too much got me a permanent ban over a month ago, being treated as a cheater is not fair to me or anyone else in the same situation!

 

[axo]

Equating this is... bad. Like... pure strawman.

A more real life equivilent would be kicking someone out of a bar, not throwing them in prison. Being banned from the game doesn't take away your freedoms or affect you at all outside of just the game itself. You lose access to ONE game, not your computer or the internet. Also, equating jaywalking (which... do not even get me started on the history of "jaywalking" and why it is even a thing because that's a whole rant on its own) with harassment and toxicity is also just another wild strawman. If you wanted a more "real world" equivilent (and I hate saying that, because harassment is harassment is harassment, internet or not) then it would be more like screaming in a coworker's face. Which, to be clear, you could actually get arrested for. It happens.

So.................... this argument isn't what you thought it was.

no, youre strawmanning despite complaining about it throughout your post

i did not do anything equivalent to "screaming in a coworkers face" for my ban. i played 50~ games of deadlock, didn't use my microphone in 48 of them, and in the remaining two i got into an argument with someone who was trolling and saying slurs. the other 48 i can only imagine i typed "ez" and "LMAO" a few too many times? i think i jokingly paused on the first day i played in like 2 matches?

i cant imagine 98% of what i said was worse than banter that is commonly exchanged in a sports game but you are crying about harassment and trying to draw an EXACT equivalent hypothetical (which ends up being inaccurate).in my initial comparison, i'm saying that the punishment doesn't fit the "crime" even closely whatsoever. that was the entire point of the hypothetical, not the tangent you went on. a hypothetical is to exaggerate a scenario to demonstrate a point and failure to engage with that honestly by saying "b-b-but its not 1:1, STRAWMAN!" is bad faith.

i think anyone virtue-signaling constantly in these forum posts lives their life online and is ACUTELY affected by even the mildest form of trash talk. if you went outside even once a week i think you would find that people in the real world can say very nasty things and come back the very next day with little consequence. the face that you even think getting in an argument or yelling at someone, ONCE, is harassment and something that could lead to you being arrested is hilarious.

 

[Lady Briar]

no, youre strawmanning despite complaining about it throughout your post

i did not do anything equivalent to "screaming in a coworkers face" for my ban. i played 50~ games of deadlock, didn't use my microphone in 48 of them, and in the remaining two i got into an argument with someone who was trolling and saying slurs. the other 48 i can only imagine i typed "ez" and "LMAO" a few too many times? i think i jokingly paused on the first day i played in like 2 matches?

i cant imagine 98% of what i said was worse than banter that is commonly exchanged in a sports game but you are crying about harassment and trying to draw an EXACT equivalent hypothetical (which ends up being inaccurate).in my initial comparison, i'm saying that the punishment doesn't fit the "crime" even closely whatsoever. that was the entire point of the hypothetical, not the tangent you went on. a hypothetical is to exaggerate a scenario to demonstrate a point and failure to engage with that honestly by saying "b-b-but its not 1:1, STRAWMAN!" is bad faith.

i think anyone virtue-signaling constantly in these forum posts lives their life online and is ACUTELY affected by even the mildest form of trash talk. if you went outside even once a week i think you would find that people in the real world can say very nasty things and come back the very next day with little consequence. the face that you even think getting in an argument or yelling at someone, ONCE, is harassment and something that could lead to you being arrested is hilarious.

OK.

 

[bebo1]

OK.

ok

 

[kiwi_gaming]

I wonder what games you've played that don't have toxicity? (mario, tetris?). The way you're talking, it sounds like you're hoping to get a medal from the developers.
Name at least one game where your actions (reporting and messing with players) helped. I don't like the fact that underneath the posts of whining toxics who write that they got banned, there are people who played tetris and say how bad it is to be toxic ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch. When you read that, you realize that people don't understand how games work.

This is really sweet bebo, unfortunately you decided to attack a person without knowing anything about them.
I have played Tetris, of course - when I was a kid. Ever since then I have played about 6k hours in dota, and about 5k in CS:GO among other "toxic" communities. Again, I did not say that I have never encountered toxicity, I do. What I do is report and mute them.

I believe how you go into a game shapes how people react to you - the whole gist of my previous post...
I start out being friendly, people are friendly back to me. When there are toxic people, I simply do not interact with them and usually by the end of the game, they stop being toxic and try to play in a team.
It really sounds like people like you go into games expecting them to be toxic and then react accordingly.
I do not, I don't fight people who are toxic, I ignore and/or mute and report them. Whether or not it changed the game for the better, that is really not for me to say.

Again, it makes me sad to read that you think games work that way because you experience them this way. This is not objective truth. Of course people will be toxic towards you if are towards them. What goes around, comes around. I think it says more about you than me if everywhere you look you see toxic people.