Terrible punishment system

[bebo1]

This is not the first time this has happened. I have to play with randoms because my friends were permanently banned (for toxicity) without any warning. Anyone who left the match will only be penalized for an hour and they can continue to do so. But players who write bad character messages and spam pauses will be banned immediately and permanently. The developers need to abolish the pernamet ban for toxicity, because what is happening in the game now is very illogical. Add at least the ability to unban, reputation system, anything you can think of, but certainly not completely deprive the ability to play the game.

 

[Lady Briar]

This is a playtest environment. Permabanning people who are not conducive to that is not only Valve's right, but is very practical. Just my 2 cents. /shrug

 

[bebo1]

This is a playtest environment. Permabanning people who are not conducive to that is not only Valve's right, but is very practical. Just my 2 cents. /shrug

Sure, but in this case we're talking about an online game. No online game has such a strict punishment. In addition, this is a competitive game, obviously there will be very emotional players. This practice could end up with no one left to play the game.
Quite funny to look at a bunch of posts with appeal ban where people on their knees asking for an unban, and in response get counseling psychologists. If a person spoils the game with his behavior let his punishment will be that he will play with the same will understand how it looks like and will not do so (it sounds very beautiful in theory of course, but in DOTA everything works like this and no one complains).

 

[Lady Briar]

Sure, but in this case we're talking about an online game. No online game has such a strict punishment. In addition, this is a competitive game, obviously there will be very emotional players. This practice could end up with no one left to play the game.
Quite funny to look at a bunch of posts with appeal ban where people on their knees asking for an unban, and in response get counseling psychologists. If a person spoils the game with his behavior let his punishment will be that he will play with the same will understand how it looks like and will not do so (it sounds very beautiful in theory of course, but in DOTA everything works like this and no one complains).

I mean, the playerbase is already growing exponentially. The queues are near instant. They aren't hurting for players.

Furthermore, none of us paid for this, so Valve isn't even monetizing this. Yet. The idea that we are owed anything, or that there would be no one left to play, isn't logical.

Maybe this is a perspective issue. Just curious, because I don't wish to make any assumptions. Have you ever been in the kind of private closed alpha/beta/playtest environment where shit like... NDAs and possibly even compensation is involved? I have, and it might be affecting how I see the whole situation. But I dunno. Just thinking 'outloud'. Text loud? I dunno, whatever. xD

 

[Fishjump]

You know they've intentionally had to patch pausing limits repeatedly because of people wasting everyone's time with toxic pauses? Even dota doesn't have the same pause restrictions that have had to be implemented for this playtest playerbase, and it has had pausing for over a decade.

 

[bebo1]

I mean, the playerbase is already growing exponentially. The queues are near instant. They aren't hurting for players.

Furthermore, none of us paid for this, so Valve isn't even monetizing this. Yet. The idea that we are owed anything, or that there would be no one left to play, isn't logical.

Maybe this is a perspective issue. Just curious, because I don't wish to make any assumptions. Have you ever been in the kind of private closed alpha/beta/playtest environment where shit like... NDAs and possibly even compensation is involved? I have, and it might be affecting how I see the whole situation. But I dunno. Just thinking 'outloud'. Text loud? I dunno, whatever. xD

I'm not talking like the rest of the toxic kids who get banned and say they're owed something.
I'm implying that at this point, a system that fights toxic players is unacceptable for release.
Right now we have an alpha test going on where you have to create certain things. It's not like they're going to release a game where you get banned instantly for being toxic.

 

[Lady Briar]

I'm not talking like the rest of the toxic kids who get banned and say they're owed something.
I'm implying that at this point, a system that fights toxic players is unacceptable for release.
Right now we have an alpha test going on where you have to create certain things. It's not like they're going to release a game where you get banned instantly for being toxic.

Ohhhhhh, I think I misunderstood what you were saying the first time. Apologies, and thanks for elaborating!

 

[sylmarien]

Sure, but in this case we're talking about an online game. No online game has such a strict punishment. In addition, this is a competitive game, obviously there will be very emotional players. This practice could end up with no one left to play the game.
Quite funny to look at a bunch of posts with appeal ban where people on their knees asking for an unban, and in response get counseling psychologists. If a person spoils the game with his behavior let his punishment will be that he will play with the same will understand how it looks like and will not do so (it sounds very beautiful in theory of course, but in DOTA everything works like this and no one complains).

I disagree with your point of view but also your point about dota is simply wrong. I play dota as well with a pretty big group of friends and everyone I know agrees that dota is too toxic and that the behavior score system is not good enough. Dota toxicity levels were good for 1-2 weeks when the "system was bugged" and toxic people were actually getting a low behavior score.

For my part, I am glad they are being very strict on toxicity in this phase, and I hope they'll continue to be strict post launch. Fostering a good culture in the game is hard, but it definitely does not happen through accepting "minor" toxicity because it happens elsewhere.

 

[bebo1]

I disagree with your point of view but also your point about dota is simply wrong. I play dota as well with a pretty big group of friends and everyone I know agrees that dota is too toxic and that the behavior score system is not good enough. Dota toxicity levels were good for 1-2 weeks when the "system was bugged" and toxic people were actually getting a low behavior score.

For my part, I am glad they are being very strict on toxicity in this phase, and I hope they'll continue to be strict post launch. Fostering a good culture in the game is hard, but it definitely does not happen through accepting "minor" toxicity because it happens elsewhere.

meh
No one is stopping them from making it like dota, but better.

 

[Pepeien]

Good. time to find new friends, being toxic on a online game alone is weird but being on a invite only beta is worse.

 

[ktiltz]

or you know stop being assholes? the wierdest shit is being toxic to your own teammates, never improves any situation infact it makes ppl play worse.

 

[bebo1]

Good. time to find new friends, being toxic on a online game alone is weird but being on a invite only beta is worse.

meh

 

[joeinky]

When the game actually releases or gets closer to release then they'll start implementing stuff like behaviour score, communication bans, low priority queues, etc.

But for now this is just meant to be a playtest and they don't owe anything to anyone, least of all toxic people, so they'll get rid of them to make the testing process as smooth as possible for everyone(don't forget this isn't just some random early access game, they don't just want people playing the game, they want people testing things and providing feedback, leavers who don't want to engage with the game and toxic people are no help to that at all).

Once the game is closer to release and they've actually implemented the above systems, you'll likely see everyone's access reinstated and then need to abide by the new rules in the future, but hopefully they'll be stricter than they are in dota 2 (the week or two after they lifted the ban on talking about the game was filled with bad players, toxic people and leavers, I don't want to go back to that).

 

[Disaster]

The problem is that it says literally nowhere in game or when you queue up that you can get punished for toxicity. So it makes sense to assume things work the same as in other valve games. You assume that, talk shit, then you learn that you aren't actually allowed to do that when you are suddenly hit with a permaban. No warning. No time based ban for few days/weeks. Instant perma. Who is this good for? Plenty of people could be spared from toxicity if there was a single warning. Such nonsense.

 

[errantmind]

Personally I'd prefer the game not be like Dota, which was one of the most toxic games I ever played. I played Dota (dota 1 wc3 mod) before it was even called Dota, before Icefrog was even involved with the game, and continued to play all the way through the launch of Dota 2 and then until 2013. The toxicity was the reason I stopped. If banning people for factual offenses sends a message to Toxic players, all the better. Ban them all I say. The game will be better for it.

 

[unrealdagger]

Personally I'd prefer the game not be like Dota, which was one of the most toxic games I ever played. I played Dota (dota 1 wc3 mod) before it was even called Dota, before Icefrog was even involved with the game, and continued to play all the way through the launch of Dota 2 and then until 2013. The toxicity was the reason I stopped. If banning people for factual offenses sends a message to Toxic players, all the better. Ban them all I say. The game will be better for it.

Eul and I used to play dota and aos back in the day and I've never felt dota was toxic at any point, even during the height of maphacks (shadowfrench) and banlist abuse, have to pick your lobbies back then. Valve's behavior system solved the public matchmaking and I have a near perfect score so I've never even seen a bad word in chat. 2013 was a decade ago though, and Hon was still pretty popular until 2012, so that's kind of funny to me. This post invokes a lot of good memories that inspired me enough to reply to it, but yeah, I don't share your opinion - I hope you try again with a new perspective.

 

[larswillemsen]

Pause spamming huh? Enjoy never playing Deadlock again, nobody will miss you.

 

[errantmind]

Eul and I used to play dota and aos back in the day and I've never felt dota was toxic at any point, even during the height of maphacks (shadowfrench) and banlist abuse, have to pick your lobbies back then. Valve's behavior system solved the public matchmaking and I have a near perfect score so I've never even seen a bad word in chat. 2013 was a decade ago though, and Hon was still pretty popular until 2012, so that's kind of funny to me. This post invokes a lot of good memories that inspired me enough to reply to it, but yeah, I don't share your opinion - I hope you try again with a new perspective.

I had good times for sure, but I don't know how you can say the game wasn't toxic. There was chat abuse in a significant portion of the games. WC3 Banlist helped (mixed bag) for hackers and particularly abusive players but it was too easy to evade and was gamed. I can't speak to the current state of Dota and won't be playing it again, but I'm glad to hear their behavior score improved the state of the game.

For me, I enjoy playing at a high level, winning or losing. Sometimes your teammates are off in their own world. That happens and sometimes you lose as a result, but there isn't ever a reason to be toxic. Toxic players make the game not fun for other players and, at least until some systems are in place to remove them from regular play, I think it is a good idea for them to be simply banned. They can go play other games and take their toxicity there.

 

[larswillemsen]

Eul and I used to play dota and aos back in the day and I've never felt dota was toxic at any point, even during the height of maphacks (shadowfrench) and banlist abuse, have to pick your lobbies back then. Valve's behavior system solved the public matchmaking and I have a near perfect score so I've never even seen a bad word in chat. 2013 was a decade ago though, and Hon was still pretty popular until 2012, so that's kind of funny to me. This post invokes a lot of good memories that inspired me enough to reply to it, but yeah, I don't share your opinion - I hope you try again with a new perspective.

You played Dota back in the day and you didn't feel like it was toxic at any point? Are you sure you had your monitor and headphones plugged in?

 

[joeinky]

The problem is that it says literally nowhere in game or when you queue up that you can get punished for toxicity. So it makes sense to assume things work the same as in other valve games. You assume that, talk shit, then you learn that you aren't actually allowed to do that when you are suddenly hit with a permaban. No warning. No time based ban for few days/weeks. Instant perma. Who is this good for? Plenty of people could be spared from toxicity if there was a single warning. Such nonsense.

If someone needs to be told not to be a dickhead and hurl slurs at or harass others, then I don't want to play with them in the first place tbh.

Maybe capital-G Gamers should pull their heads out of their arses and start treating other people with respect, rather than assuming that the default way to interact with others online is to harass people because you didn't like the way they played their electronic toys.

It's not like we're talking about people being banned for friendly ribbing in good fun, or someone went "ah fuck" in chat because they died, it's just vile shit aimed at making others feel bad and it puts people off wanting to even play the game.

People don't want to play dota because of the perception of the community almost as much as the complexity of the game, it would be a shame for that to be the case with this game also.