Remove Mcginnis until reworked entirely
- Thread starter Propane
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bloodfrost27
Active member
Wrong place to put this
Extvia
New member
Propane
Member
it's not, the combination of high damage output, high sustain, and extremely low skill ceiling combine perfectly to make the single most annoying and abusable hero in the game, none of the buffs or nerfs have changed this as they do not address the fundamental issues with her kit.
She's the participation award of deadlock, wins lanes pretty much just by existing, has the best proxy farm in the game (so she keeps up in cs without any macro skill to speak of), has one of the highest dps early game, and THE best zoning ability by far (wall)
and on top of all that is the complete lack of viable counter items, below is a list of items people suggest as a counter and why they are not actually effective
monster rounds -- I will admit this does help some, the biggest problem with this is to shoot her turrets you have to see them and if you can see them they are going to shoot you for a couple hundred hp at minimum (damage falloff is not harsh enough to make a real difference with how fast they shoot)
silence glyph -- by the time you get this on her the heal is already down and multiple turrets in it so it's only really useful against the wall (which will block glyph from reaching her!)
ricochet -- too expensive, people who say this is a counter item are genuinely just trolling, no one besides infernus, mirage, and maybe haze is going to build rico
curse -- pretty effective against everyone EXCEPT mcginnis, doesn't disarm her turrets (it should) and forces you to choose between killing her and dying to turret or killing turrets and dying anyway because as soon as curse is over she can shit out more turrets and a heal
all in all turret based kits are always going to be un-balanceable and do not belong in a moba at all.. the only way to make it remotely ok is for her turrets to shut off if she is more than ~15m from them, that and she needs to not be able to shit out an entire new turret nest in a few seconds. Her character design is supposed to be based around fortifying a position and holding it, the counterplay should be to force her out of position and kill her and the range and cd on turrets/heal/wall prevent this from working as it should.
Propane
Member
oh my bad let me just put it in the invisible place where no one can discuss it or see that mcginnis is actually a commonly hated hero, right up there with bebop and vindicta in terms of 'if there was a ban system we would never see them again'
Ragnaman
Active member
Ginnis is a slow truck made of enriched stalinium, yes you dont just have a teamfight where ginnis is a centerpiece with 4 turrets (soon to have 5) while entire lane is under 2 bottles of her heal AOE, you simply dont, thats her whole schtick.
In endgame I have yet to see a Ginnis being able to do anything other than slow down inevitable doom from turbomaxxed Talons and wardens. She is proper tough nut and fun to play in midgame, many many fools try to smash their heads against her and her turrets and its fun to see one trick pony chars (press 4) get what they deserve.
In endgame I have yet to see a Ginnis being able to do anything other than slow down inevitable doom from turbomaxxed Talons and wardens. She is proper tough nut and fun to play in midgame, many many fools try to smash their heads against her and her turrets and its fun to see one trick pony chars (press 4) get what they deserve.
IgorNL
Member
I don't know if you noticed, but the list only includes Ascendant and Eternus players. The list is based on the best players, and now I'm going to explain why the character is bad.
1. Her turret deals 40 damage per second and scales 0.4, which is practically the same as nothing, and she reaches a maximum of 450 health, while characters have 300-400 ballistic DPS on average at this stage of the game where the turret reaches 450 health, so the turret deals almost no damage and can still be broken in less than 2 seconds.
2. Her healing doesn't scale, she will heal 25 for the entire game, and at maximum level she heals another 4% of her maximum health, which doesn't guarantee very good support, and you still have to stay within the healing area, which gives you a huge disadvantage.
3. The wall is the only really useful ability of this character, and even so, there are much better abilities in the game on other heroes.
4. Her ultimate is one of the worst in the game, just get close to her and she can't hit you and the damage is average.
The only viable build for McGinnis currently is the ballistic damage build and she still loses to all the other heroes in the game, it's no wonder she's in one of the lowest ranks on the list.
here is a list based only on ETERNUS players, and mcginnis is even lower in the rankings.
And don't just look at the very low winrate, look at the 22% pickrate, one of the lowest, low winrate, low pickrate and decreasing, if McGinnis is so OP then why does she have one of the lowest pickrates and winrates?
Ragnaman
Active member
She is a good pleb destroyer who ignore turrets, warden rushing 4 turrets under heroic aura is fun to watch.
Her turrets live at least for 3 seconds due to the rework which is still kinda viable in endgame, but anyone with average IQ will simply kill turrets before advancing.
Her turrets live at least for 3 seconds due to the rework which is still kinda viable in endgame, but anyone with average IQ will simply kill turrets before advancing.
madelinesalter8
Member
okay but ascendent and eternus players make up what, the top 4 or 5% of players?
so the quality and balance of the vast majority of games played just doesnt matter?
at the moment they arent balancing the game for pro play, so your data isnt valid and represents the smallest sample in the game.
bloodfrost27
Active member
Dont be a prick. You know what the point of all this is. If you wanna go have a whiny baby rant, go on reddit or something. The way youre going about this helps absolutely no one and is frankly pathetic
himanshu.ghadigaonkar
New member
Very well said
IgorNL
Member
Compare McGinnis to any other hero in the game and you will see that she is horrible, try playing with her, her turrets are just another creep for the enemy to farm, they do no damage and are easily broken, her wall is easily avoidable, her ultimate is easily avoidable, her healing is mediocre, her M1 takes a long time to charge, McGinnis can be defeated by any hero in this game, compare her to pocket, haze, warden, lash, geist and you will see that she is inferior in everything.
thatfunkedude
Member
I've got 500+ matches on mcginnis, and this is just patently untrue. McGinnis, especially at higher level, requires one of the most active macrogames across the roster- her strengths are taking objectives (macro), supporting teamfights (macro) and clearing vital off-lanes (macro). Heroes that rely on microgame are typically ones who only chase kills and fights, which mcginnis in 99% of circumstances doesn't do.
McGinnis is frustrating to fight because she is an area denial hero, but in a game where the macro revolves around area denial, what does that make her? Objectively speaking, she falls off against stronger opponents because stronger opponents understand not to 1v1 a McGinnis if she's already controlling a space. They either 3v1 her or they rotate to a different lane. Lower level players don't understand this, and then they get frustrated when they can't 1v1 a McGinnis not realizing the gameplay counter to her is stalling out her pushes, exploiting her long wall/heal cooldowns/long reload and outrotating her because her base kit has no mobility.
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