destinyfrfr
Member
the devs are reading this thread like hmm, okay, yeah, alright lets buff mo n krills burrow
Remove Mcginnis until reworked entirely
- Thread starter Propane
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destinyfrfr
Member
also watch some higher level games, mcginnis ult has been pretty strong recently haha
IgorNL
Member
Watch the video of higher levels and you will see that they hardly use the ult lmao, they only build ballistic damage and go out shooting because the turrets and the ult are terrible, they only use the ult to farm t3 fields
boredpanda
New member
Alchemical fire is great too , forces her to back off and abandon turrets.
Dashiell
Active member
If only we could buy items in game that halve damage received while boosting our max hp but alas
heroes are set in stone and we have to wait until Blizzard nerfs OP heroes.
Bobbert
New member
I wouldn't remove her but i feel like my previous spirit build of her focusing on turrets is highly ineffective now in this patch since the turrets are pretty much fast shooting peashooters that only exist to slow people down and allow enemies to farm faster rather than the cannons they were in the previous patch. I guess I have to start doing something about her guns instead but the nerf really screws up whatever spirit builds I had for her previously (and her winrate).
I am super sad to agree with IgorNL. I used to stomp people in Emissary & Archon. Now in Oracle 3/4, i feel McGinnis is just super weak once people undertand to just avoid to fight her inside her healing pod. Turrets get destroyed as soon as 1 is placed on the field.
If you dare to use your ultimate, people will just use your lack of mobility to get you (Lash/Bepop/Paradox be like "McGinnis ult' ? Free pot of souls !)
Minigun build is the only one that is barely good but it is pretty weak in team fight as you need to be at close range to make it work but you also have 0 mobility to escape once wall is on cooldown.
I have 300 games played with McGinnis, and I am sad to not enjoy her anymore.
If you dare to use your ultimate, people will just use your lack of mobility to get you (Lash/Bepop/Paradox be like "McGinnis ult' ? Free pot of souls !)
Minigun build is the only one that is barely good but it is pretty weak in team fight as you need to be at close range to make it work but you also have 0 mobility to escape once wall is on cooldown.
I have 300 games played with McGinnis, and I am sad to not enjoy her anymore.
Propane
Member
fantastic idea actually, definitely going to give this a shot
considering turrets were just nerfed yesterday I think it's safe to say my complaints were pretty valid.. don't really think the changes address the issue of how annoying they are though
I was actually listening to each point and genuinely trying to hear your side of things until this comment....now I almost have to throw the entire thing out the window lmfao...
Bebop and Vindicta would never be seen again if there were bans?!?!
What?!?!?!
Since when has Bebop been broken lmfao. He is literally a pub smash champion, similar to how Seven was before players know that they can just walk around corners lol.
And Vindicta? Ok I'll admit....in recent patches she is definitely a better hero....but a constant ban?!?! Dude there's at least.......idk.....5-6 other heros getting that ban before I'd even consider a Vindicta, and I'm even taking into consideration that your comment was made before the last patch.
This post just reeks of someone not able to adjust to how some heroes play. I have to assume this is an Abram player or something and all you are doing is jumping in and trying to swing at each of these turrets lol
Propane
Member
for someone 'listening to each point and trying to see my side' you've completely ignored half of what I said, I'm 100% right about bebop never seeing the light of day again if they add a pick/ban system. It's not necessarily about how op the hero is it's about how annoying and anti-fun they are to play against, this can be quantified as the ratio of damage output to skill expression; seven is a great example too actually, giant aoe balls that require little to no thought since you get another almost instantly, a stun that targets for you, and an aoe ult thats basically just an even bigger ball. Does this mean seven is broken? no, not by a long shot but he's still annoying lol
here's a graph of the most banned champs in league games, notice how most of them aren't actually any good, with the most banned champion being #63 in terms of winrate! banning heros isn't always about who's super overpowered this patch, it's usually more about who ruins the fun, sometimes the two go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.
and for the record I'm a lash/ivy main, I have zero problem killing these heros I'm talking about they're just really flipping annoying.. that said I will admit lash feels a little overtuned as well and a good one can be a real pain to play against but he also has far more skill expression and has to actually take risks to deal damage.
really the biggest issue I have with deadlock as a whole right now is I have too many deaths that are just 'wow that's just bullshit' and not enough 'damn I got outplayed'.. I genuinely enjoy getting outplayed/out-skilled because I get to learn and improve from it, there's nothing to learn from getting one shotted by vindicta across the map or hooked into the enemy team by bebop.
Bobbert
New member
I find it baffling that you find heroes like Bebop/vindicta/mcginnis to be "anti-fun" when you main that exact anti-fun hero who throws people off their positioning in a wide area just by being present in that immediate location. Lash is exactly the hero that's fun to play for you but nobody else wants to deal with one with the sheer ridiculousness he'll bring into any fight. But rather than splitting hairs and demanding his removal till a rework, there's still items and strats that can counter him regardless. Same with the others in your personal banlist
The problem with your graph is you are skipping out on a few important factors:
#1 - The champions with higher win rates are not that popular. Nilah has the current highest winrate at 54% and is only at 2% popularity for example.
Who is going to ban someone who is rarely ever even picked anyways?
#2 - Warwick, the 2nd highest winrate, yet he has a solid popularity at 8% is not only a jungler but a counterable jungler and has been virtually the same basic hero for over a decade now. 52% winrate is not high enough to be considered broken, and it's not a crazy hard hero to deal with...so I get why there's no bans.
There's no point in banning a basic counterable hero that isn't really even broken, especially if it's a jungler one of the least popular positions
#3 - Alot of the rest of the high winrate characters are just supports. As an ex-support player to be blunt support players tend to go to folks that understand the fundamentals of a MOBA the best on a team since they are in charge of wards, and making plays. And there hasn't been a fundamentally broken support for a while now.
No one cares about supports and feels like they need to be banned outside of tournament play. Once again these are unpopular picks
But it really boils down to the first point I made....folks are going to use their bans on popular picks that also get decent win rates and are considered the most broken at the moment.
Folks are not going to ban Bebop, if teams were allowed 2 bans each, EVERY single game would now result in a Haze, Infernus, Dynamo, and a toss-up of Mo/Pocket/Yamato as the 4th pick. And even before folks would reach Bebop there's still Paradox (literally the better Bebop, but going back to my point above, she's an unpopular pick so she probably wouldn't get banned anyways), Warden, Abrams, Vindicta, Ivy, Grey Talon....and MAYBE now can start to consider Bebop.
The amount of games that I play where I sit back and say "Man that Bebop really wrecked us" is super rare and when it does you simply gotta admit that the dude outplayed you.
Can't say the same when a Dynamo does nothing but feed all game and nails 2 solid ults 30 minutes into the game and ends up winning their team the game.......that is way more cause for a ban. An Infernus that rushes T3 Flame Dash, and Charge items then just does nothing but Flame Dashes in a fight runs under turrets and is practically untargetable because they are no longer playing a MOBA but instead a NASCAR game....yet still winning? Yeah.......that's a cause for a ban.
But anyways....my bad for sidelining this entire discussion which was supposed to be about Mcginnis lmfao, I still heavily disagree with that lol
#1 - The champions with higher win rates are not that popular. Nilah has the current highest winrate at 54% and is only at 2% popularity for example.
Who is going to ban someone who is rarely ever even picked anyways?
#2 - Warwick, the 2nd highest winrate, yet he has a solid popularity at 8% is not only a jungler but a counterable jungler and has been virtually the same basic hero for over a decade now. 52% winrate is not high enough to be considered broken, and it's not a crazy hard hero to deal with...so I get why there's no bans.
There's no point in banning a basic counterable hero that isn't really even broken, especially if it's a jungler one of the least popular positions
#3 - Alot of the rest of the high winrate characters are just supports. As an ex-support player to be blunt support players tend to go to folks that understand the fundamentals of a MOBA the best on a team since they are in charge of wards, and making plays. And there hasn't been a fundamentally broken support for a while now.
No one cares about supports and feels like they need to be banned outside of tournament play. Once again these are unpopular picks
But it really boils down to the first point I made....folks are going to use their bans on popular picks that also get decent win rates and are considered the most broken at the moment.
Folks are not going to ban Bebop, if teams were allowed 2 bans each, EVERY single game would now result in a Haze, Infernus, Dynamo, and a toss-up of Mo/Pocket/Yamato as the 4th pick. And even before folks would reach Bebop there's still Paradox (literally the better Bebop, but going back to my point above, she's an unpopular pick so she probably wouldn't get banned anyways), Warden, Abrams, Vindicta, Ivy, Grey Talon....and MAYBE now can start to consider Bebop.
The amount of games that I play where I sit back and say "Man that Bebop really wrecked us" is super rare and when it does you simply gotta admit that the dude outplayed you.
Can't say the same when a Dynamo does nothing but feed all game and nails 2 solid ults 30 minutes into the game and ends up winning their team the game.......that is way more cause for a ban. An Infernus that rushes T3 Flame Dash, and Charge items then just does nothing but Flame Dashes in a fight runs under turrets and is practically untargetable because they are no longer playing a MOBA but instead a NASCAR game....yet still winning? Yeah.......that's a cause for a ban.
But anyways....my bad for sidelining this entire discussion which was supposed to be about Mcginnis lmfao, I still heavily disagree with that lol
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This you? lol
McGinnis is useless guys says the guy going 70% winrate over 32 games at a decent rank.
Propane
Member
the guy defending mcginnis also abuses her low-skill kit to climb to ranks they probably don't belong in? wow who could have seen that coming
Propane
Member
yes that is what sets mcginnis apart from the others on my list, the fact that she has no actual effective counter, also I mostly play lash because if I don't play lash I get raped by lash lol
Propane
Member
watch match id 30124572
laughably bad player but still wins lane for free and ultimately the game, has terrible positioning constantly and constantly gets away with it, not to mention terrible aim but 22% headshot damage (yay spray and pray) and obscene dps despite little invested in orange items....
laughably bad player but still wins lane for free and ultimately the game, has terrible positioning constantly and constantly gets away with it, not to mention terrible aim but 22% headshot damage (yay spray and pray) and obscene dps despite little invested in orange items....
I don't think it matters picrate or winrate. This hero needs to completely revamp his turrets. With turrets, huge ammo, speed and damage, this hero is capable of demolishing buildings solo even without creeps. Also, I don't think the picray argument is relevant as it all depends on the situation. And to all those who say you shouldn't fight under her turrets, a question. What do you do if she went to break buildings, you're alone next to her, and your team is on the opposite end of the map? Just walk away and give her a turn? I'll attach a video where you can see that her turrets are absurd.
Propane
Member
fantastic clip, really shows everything wrong with her, nerfs will not fix these issues her kit needs to change
Bobbert
New member
what do you even mean there is no effective counter to a mcginnis? you can sic any half-decent hero focusing on 1-1 fights onto her, put her off positioning and wreck her so bad, not even her minigun and the turrets rev can save her unless you have terrible bullet resistance like Vindicta. an ABRAMS player can beat her ass solo with more or less basic gear and you're complaining that she's too broken on top of a patch that already nerfed her turrets to hell? and then you went and say you picked lash because if you don't the lash player will dominate which just indicates that the only counter for him is to get first pick for him with no actual counters, then?
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