OdinVertbotenTV
Member
I hover around Phantom 3, so why in the fuck am I being placed into a 4 stack team that is FOUR ELO RANKS BELOW ME?!The opposing team had 3 Phantom and 3 ritualist players. What the hell is this matchmaking?!
Bad Matchmaking Thread
- Thread starter Yoshi
- Start date
I hover around Phantom 3, so why in the fuck am I being placed into a 4 stack team that is FOUR ELO RANKS BELOW ME?!The opposing team had 3 Phantom and 3 ritualist players. What the hell is this matchmaking?!
flint.wongkh
Active member
@Yoshi why do i keep getting ass teammates. its always the loses as i said where only 1 or less is positive the rest are so ass. how is the team rank balanced but you have enemies doing so much better gamewise and stats wise. these two clowns billy and doorman were so bad but were being toxic while being ass. Fix your matchmaking bro, 3Ls in a row because of horrible teammates eventho the rank disparity is the same. if everyone played decent and still lose i understand. But when you have noisy teammates who thinks they know how to play but are ass, how to win brother.
xancoiramartinez
New member
Match ID: 50392539
A Sinclair on my team DID NOT buy items up until we told them they should several minutes into the game and they DID NOT level up and DID NOT use their ultimate even once through the game, as they leveled it up 40+ minutes into the game. 0 objective damage because they'd always shoot it from far away, even reading the pop-up.
A Sinclair on my team DID NOT buy items up until we told them they should several minutes into the game and they DID NOT level up and DID NOT use their ultimate even once through the game, as they leveled it up 40+ minutes into the game. 0 objective damage because they'd always shoot it from far away, even reading the pop-up.
Breeder of Mina Ha
New member
I dropped to Asc 3 from ornaments. Why am I in a Oracle 1 lobby? Are these players even human?
Of course I catch a comm ban too off of calling these genuine subhumans what they are, which is retards. All of them are fucking terrible but how are you going 1-22 and 3-13?
Of course I catch a comm ban too off of calling these genuine subhumans what they are, which is retards. All of them are fucking terrible but how are you going 1-22 and 3-13?
kwakenung
New member
The ranking system seriously needs to find a way to account for "gamesense" because there are too many players with Initiate level gamesense yet finding themselves in Archon, Emissary, Phantom, etc. More than anything, I think this is what is ruining the quality of games.
Recycling the same dogshit ranking system from Dota 2 isn't going to cut it. I trust AI or even no matchmaking at all more than whatever the hell this is. Seriously the worst MM I've ever seen. Which sucks because the game is amazing in pretty much every other possible way. MM alone ruins it.
Oh, and the server jitter from Counter-Strike 2 plagues this game as well. Between the terrible MM and that, this game just nukes your mental health after a while.
Recycling the same dogshit ranking system from Dota 2 isn't going to cut it. I trust AI or even no matchmaking at all more than whatever the hell this is. Seriously the worst MM I've ever seen. Which sucks because the game is amazing in pretty much every other possible way. MM alone ruins it.
Oh, and the server jitter from Counter-Strike 2 plagues this game as well. Between the terrible MM and that, this game just nukes your mental health after a while.
vnazer1998
New member
50408607
50410020
50413789
50415513
50417234
I really tried to carry all the games but idk, there is ALWAYS one or 2 noobs playing on my matches, every match is a hard loss or a hard win, this could be easily fixed if could be added a draft system and a ranked system AND MOST IMPROTANTLY a avoid player system for toxic players
50410020
50413789
50415513
50417234
I really tried to carry all the games but idk, there is ALWAYS one or 2 noobs playing on my matches, every match is a hard loss or a hard win, this could be easily fixed if could be added a draft system and a ranked system AND MOST IMPROTANTLY a avoid player system for toxic players
Analysis: Party Matchmaking Is Broken and How To Fix It
SUMMARY
At lower ranks, matchmaking is biased towards solo and duo queue players. Data from 158 matches shows a clear bias. I assume the opposite is true in higher ranks, but that exceeds the scope of this analysis.
METHODOLOGY
I pulled my last 158 games from statlocker. I used statlocker because it quickly displays party size. I ignored games where someone abandoned. I did not analyze more games, because it reached back to when statlocker was having difficulty pulling match data, leading to many incomplete matches.
Statlocker - Deadlock Stats Tracker & Match Analytics
Track your Deadlock matches, analyze performance, and improve. Real-time stats, hero tier lists, build guides, and rank tracking.
RESULTS
Solo: 17/26 wins (65% winrate)
Duo: 42/75 wins (56% winrate)
Trio: 15/46 wins (33% winrate)
4-stack: 3/11 wins (27% winrate)
DISCUSSION
My account is currently ranked in low Archon. I've been as high as Archon 6 when I solo queue, but every time I play with my friends, matchmaking insists I lose. Having a 30% winrate for party queue is not healthy or fun. I've been steadily improving and am outperforming my account's rank (65% winrate) but not ranking up because of losses in a party. My lower rank friends don't even want to queue with me if I'm on a win streak, because all of us feel the massive change in difficulty when we party up.
I had the same issue with Smite. I was a Masters level player and regularly queued casual games with my friends who were much lower rank. The games felt the same as in Deadlock, where you are likely using the same matchmaking algorithm (or similar). My games queued in party are exceptionally and noticeably more challenging.
I think there's an assumption that the more players are in a party, the stronger that party is. This is likely true at the highest level, but it flips on its head when you get to lower than average rank. The alchemist and arcanist games I play in party are massively more challenging than my solo queue archon games. The individual lane opponents are often phantom or oracle players (2 full ranks above my account) while my random teammates have no clue how to play.
SOLUTION
The simplest and cleanest solution is to have unique matchmaking for individual parties. When I play regularly with my 3-stack and 4-stack, the game should assign a unique rank to the party, not individual players. It should remember this rank and apply it every time we queue together. Wins and losses should not apply to our individual accounts/ranks.
How this would look:
I queue with my friends for the first time. Our ranks are Initiate, Seeker, Ritualist, and Archon. The game averages our rank to treat us as four fresh accounts ranked somewhere around Arcanist. Conversely, treat us as 4 solo queue players for the first match matchmaking.
After that match finishes, adjust that Arcanist rank based on the win/loss and then treat that as our rank going forward. So next weekend we queue together, and the algorithm treats us as 4 arcanist players.
As we win/lose, our collective rank will rise/lower to meet an approximate 50% winrate. At this point, matchmaking will have done its job and found balance. Even if I climb to Eternus or fall to Initiate, matchmaking will strive to keep our 4 stack at 50% winrate, as opposed to the current 27% winrate. This will create a better experience for all 12 players in the lobby.
KNOWN PROBLEMS WITH MY METHODOLOGY/CLARIFICATIONS
158 games is a small sample size. 11 games as a 4-stack is an even smaller sample size. However, my group has been feeling this problem for the past year.
Individual characters have individual hidden MMR. I did not account for that in my analysis. However, most of my games with lower MMR characters have been losses in 4-stack or 3-stack games, because the current algorithm strives to put me on lower individual MMR characters when I queue into lower average MMR lobbies. The result is that when I'm in a 4-stack, I'm on a weaker character, and as I result I have even less impact, making the match that much harder to carry (which the algorithm expects of me as the highest rank player on my team).
Smurfs exist, and I know some of my losses were to smurfs. When I 4-stack I'm less likely to get a smurf on my side, though (2 possible teammates as smurfs versus 5 if I solo queue).
Many of these games were during the holiday challenge. I'm sure many players were not on their main characters.
THAT'S IT. PLEASE FIX SO MY FRIENDS CAN ENJOY PLAYING THE GAME WITH ME AGAIN.
Last edited:
60 h into this game... I actually see an overall good matchmaking.
The typical thing that makes matches not enjoyable are actually community / human related:
1. people in a party = usually teamwork only with his buddy(s), no comms until they feel trashtalk is needed, finish with above average current game stats yet yield bad loss to a team because of ego playing
2. many people play very ego = do not use mics, pull out of fights you are head deep because you kinda pushed together until ego people just back down to save their stats, not die
3. ability for people to just quit which many opt for as soon as their feelings are hurt, they do get a bad start or they can't handle feedback
In my experience even when facing much better players (smurfs / hackers idk what is going on there) the main issue is that people stop / never start teamworking. It's typical 2 per lane and as soon as one lane crumbles noone helps and it goes down hill fast because everyone start to either chicken out of fights or just stack mid lane together and get owned because enemy team already has upper hand and they read the game / flank / isolate fights.
Matchmaking has not been solved in basically any of the games I have played so far, Deadlock will not be perfect. But so far I actually like what I see. I would ideally have soloq players in one lobby / game and people who at least duo get matched with duos+ given above said plus the fact that soloq team with no teamwork (which happens a lot and will continue to be so because current gaming community) vs at least a duo stack in most cases is already a loss given duo will go ahead fast and then farm.
p.s. it would be amazing if game could monitor mic usage and pair people who don't use mics in one type of games and ones that do give regular comms during the game in another. I understand that some people have mental issues / brain capacity issues and can't talk, process incoming comms, but they should be separated from people like I who really likes to IGL and gives short, concise comms basically as often as needed.
The typical thing that makes matches not enjoyable are actually community / human related:
1. people in a party = usually teamwork only with his buddy(s), no comms until they feel trashtalk is needed, finish with above average current game stats yet yield bad loss to a team because of ego playing
2. many people play very ego = do not use mics, pull out of fights you are head deep because you kinda pushed together until ego people just back down to save their stats, not die
3. ability for people to just quit which many opt for as soon as their feelings are hurt, they do get a bad start or they can't handle feedback
In my experience even when facing much better players (smurfs / hackers idk what is going on there) the main issue is that people stop / never start teamworking. It's typical 2 per lane and as soon as one lane crumbles noone helps and it goes down hill fast because everyone start to either chicken out of fights or just stack mid lane together and get owned because enemy team already has upper hand and they read the game / flank / isolate fights.
Matchmaking has not been solved in basically any of the games I have played so far, Deadlock will not be perfect. But so far I actually like what I see. I would ideally have soloq players in one lobby / game and people who at least duo get matched with duos+ given above said plus the fact that soloq team with no teamwork (which happens a lot and will continue to be so because current gaming community) vs at least a duo stack in most cases is already a loss given duo will go ahead fast and then farm.
p.s. it would be amazing if game could monitor mic usage and pair people who don't use mics in one type of games and ones that do give regular comms during the game in another. I understand that some people have mental issues / brain capacity issues and can't talk, process incoming comms, but they should be separated from people like I who really likes to IGL and gives short, concise comms basically as often as needed.
temirgaliev2104
New member
WHY IS IT TO HARD TO WIN 3 IN A ROW AND EASY TO LOSE 7 GAMES IN ROW. EVERY GAME IS SHOULD BE CARRIED BY ME WTF IS THIS. AND PLEASE DELETE HERO CALLED PAIGE UNBALANCED SHIT IVE EVER SEEN
eoinmarcusobyrne
New member
Match ID: 50320034 - The mina is TogetherDL, a 'pro player' eternus 6, who is queued in a 6 stack in this match, the average MMR of his team is ascendant 1, where as the average of our team was oracle 5. Aside from the rank disparity, they were a 6 stack and we were 2 duos and 2 solo's I believe.
OdinVertbotenTV
Member
50446799The opposing team's Doorman and myself should not have been placed in this lobby. Nonstop seal clubbing to the point it felt like I was playing against bots.
The team average is FOUR ELO RANKS below where I typically play.
astupidface12
Member
50456879
HAZE smurf+cheat
PAIGE smurf ? + inparty with haze
HIGH probability -- haze+paige creating Illegal software, suing one-day lifetime accounts.
Wraith -- left the match, because she suspected ally haze in cheats. Plus, she were outplayed in melee+parry combat by me -- me is Mina
Green leaving label
PLEASE, DisBan wraith account " xKUDISx "
HAZE smurf+cheat
PAIGE smurf ? + inparty with haze
HIGH probability -- haze+paige creating Illegal software, suing one-day lifetime accounts.
Wraith -- left the match, because she suspected ally haze in cheats. Plus, she were outplayed in melee+parry combat by me -- me is Mina
Green leaving label
PLEASE, DisBan wraith account " xKUDISx "
throwawaym8
Active member
Valve literally does not care. They have left every game they have ever made be ruined by cheaters. Deadlock will be the same.
Every low to mid rank match will have cheaters or smurfs in them.
cool_slowbro
New member
50457089
Another terribly matchmade game. What's worse is that you take the L all the same regardless of whether you performed or not. I'm sure at this point that this thread is just a place for people to vent. Valve has the tech to automatically parse games and see whether they are poorly matchmade or not.
Another terribly matchmade game. What's worse is that you take the L all the same regardless of whether you performed or not. I'm sure at this point that this thread is just a place for people to vent. Valve has the tech to automatically parse games and see whether they are poorly matchmade or not.
cool_slowbro
New member
50459552
Infernus abandons the game after his lane gets obliterated like 8 minutes into the game with Seven following too. I find it difficult to understand how they let "matchmaking" give us such bad games. I think there's enough examples of the system simply not working, will just wait until some patch deals with it.
Infernus abandons the game after his lane gets obliterated like 8 minutes into the game with Seven following too. I find it difficult to understand how they let "matchmaking" give us such bad games. I think there's enough examples of the system simply not working, will just wait until some patch deals with it.
OdinVertbotenTV
Member
50459659Haze and Viscous duo that were rage hacking throughout the entire round. Pretty miserable to say the least.
Does this game even have semi-functioning anti-cheat?
astupidface12
Member
It is going to be fixed.
Look at AI bots! There are HUGE intelecccc.
The only thing that must be done -- unban player who rage-quit ed, and saved other TIME of 11 humans...
Look at first 2 minutes as me to wraith, and wraith to me. WRAITH didn't understand that parry+melee has lags on server (ping ms lag) - i parryed her 3 time in a row - BOOM. In wraith's mid "AUTOPERRY HACK, AUTOPERRY HACK". But i was lucky, and ping betrayed Wraith+Doorman combat. !
Thats it, videogame is juicy! In addition, our infernus voiced and claimed dirtyness of haze player, on the opposite line.
P.S. waiting for 4 lines plus 6 players (true-solo, true skill) on that map. Fun per hour was extreme! in nonpopular casual mode, i was happy to lend a surprising hand of help to an unknown wanderer, using only (70% game-pings for micro, 20% chat for macro, 10% voice for anti-conflict question solutions). 90% Humans still have 0.1% clue, that during death, ping on mini-map is seen by alive ALLY. Verdict - they skippppp tutorial with length of 30 secs. They don't know about tom clancy's rainbow six siege, with game after virtual death. They have catastrophic habit to press alt+tab after ingamedeath during playing game.
Where can you tell team average / see other player ranks?
Breeder of Mina Ha
New member
If you are the highest rank in your group and playing with a 4 stack, you have control of the macro of over half of your team. If that is leading to a 27% WR, you either have terrible macro or your buddies mechanical skills are so bad they need to stick to Roblox or no build Fortnite.Analysis: Party Matchmaking Is Broken and How To Fix It
SUMMARY
At lower ranks, matchmaking is biased towards solo and duo queue players. Data from 158 matches shows a clear bias. I assume the opposite is true in higher ranks, but that exceeds the scope of this analysis.
METHODOLOGY
I pulled my last 158 games from statlocker. I used statlocker because it quickly displays party size. I ignored games where someone abandoned. I did not analyze more games, because it reached back to when statlocker was having difficulty pulling match data, leading to many incomplete matches.
Statlocker - Deadlock Stats Tracker & Match Analytics
Track your Deadlock matches, analyze performance, and improve. Real-time stats, hero tier lists, build guides, and rank tracking.statlocker.gg
RESULTS
Solo: 17/26 wins (65% winrate)
Duo: 42/75 wins (56% winrate)
Trio: 15/46 wins (33% winrate)
4-stack: 3/11 wins (27% winrate)
DISCUSSION
My account is currently ranked in low Archon. I've been as high as Archon 6 when I solo queue, but every time I play with my friends, matchmaking insists I lose. Having a 30% winrate for party queue is not healthy or fun. I've been steadily improving and am outperforming my account's rank (65% winrate) but not ranking up because of losses in a party. My lower rank friends don't even want to queue with me if I'm on a win streak, because all of us feel the massive change in difficulty when we party up.
I had the same issue with Smite. I was a Masters level player and regularly queued casual games with my friends who were much lower rank. The games felt the same as in Deadlock, where you are likely using the same matchmaking algorithm (or similar). My games queued in party are exceptionally and noticeably more challenging.
I think there's an assumption that the more players are in a party, the stronger that party is. This is likely true at the highest level, but it flips on its head when you get to lower than average rank. The alchemist and arcanist games I play in party are massively more challenging than my solo queue archon games. The individual lane opponents are often phantom or oracle players (2 full ranks above my account) while my random teammates have no clue how to play.
SOLUTION
The simplest and cleanest solution is to have unique matchmaking for individual parties. When I play regularly with my 3-stack and 4-stack, the game should assign a unique rank to the party, not individual players. It should remember this rank and apply it every time we queue together. Wins and losses should not apply to our individual accounts/ranks.
How this would look:
I queue with my friends for the first time. Our ranks are Initiate, Seeker, Ritualist, and Archon. The game averages our rank to treat us as four fresh accounts ranked somewhere around Arcanist. Conversely, treat us as 4 solo queue players for the first match matchmaking.
After that match finishes, adjust that Arcanist rank based on the win/loss and then treat that as our rank going forward. So next weekend we queue together, and the algorithm treats us as 4 arcanist players.
As we win/lose, our collective rank will rise/lower to meet an approximate 50% winrate. At this point, matchmaking will have done its job and found balance. Even if I climb to Eternus or fall to Initiate, matchmaking will strive to keep our 4 stack at 50% winrate, as opposed to the current 27% winrate. This will create a better experience for all 12 players in the lobby.
KNOWN PROBLEMS WITH MY METHODOLOGY/CLARIFICATIONS
158 games is a small sample size. 11 games as a 4-stack is an even smaller sample size. However, my group has been feeling this problem for the past year.
Individual characters have individual hidden MMR. I did not account for that in my analysis. However, most of my games with lower MMR characters have been losses in 4-stack or 3-stack games, because the current algorithm strives to put me on lower individual MMR characters when I queue into lower average MMR lobbies. The result is that when I'm in a 4-stack, I'm on a weaker character, and as I result I have even less impact, making the match that much harder to carry (which the algorithm expects of me as the highest rank player on my team).
Smurfs exist, and I know some of my losses were to smurfs. When I 4-stack I'm less likely to get a smurf on my side, though (2 possible teammates as smurfs versus 5 if I solo queue).
Many of these games were during the holiday challenge. I'm sure many players were not on their main characters.
THAT'S IT. PLEASE FIX SO MY FRIENDS CAN ENJOY PLAYING THE GAME WITH ME AGAIN.
MM in this game is terrible but I find it hard to believe that your 4 stack is consistently being put against a team that has a significantly higher rank than you all's average or that there is 3+ Oracle/Phantom players on the other team that outrank you.
