anti gun items are weak, here are some ideas

[blckcnvs]

rn there seems to be a gun meta, while some drastic changes like nerfing items like bullet lifesteal, intensifying mag and/or burst fire seem tempting i want to point attention to the lack of constant sustain that gun builds get that spirit builds likely dont benefit from, i think there are currently items in the game that feel like they should act as solutions but fall short here are my ideas for making them more effective (hopefully not broken)

whither whip: this item is personally a fav but doesnt really do much to anyone speccing deep into fire rate, my suggestion: make the fire rate slow apply in a curve, when it max's to the full 45% apply 2 seconds of disarm to the target

metal skin: a slight duration increase would be nice but i think a temporary boost to hp would feed into becoming more durable like +300 hp on proc

 

[gibnewitems]

whither whip: this item is personally a fav but doesnt really do much to anyone speccing deep into fire rate, my suggestion: make the fire rate slow apply in a curve, when it max's to the full 45% apply 2 seconds of disarm to the target

I don't think withering whip's identity should be as a counter item (similar to slowing hex and decay). The devs agree, which is why they reworked it in the first place (by getting rid of the disarm, then reducing the cooldown and giving it fire rate). The period between August 29th - September 26th was by far the best state for withering whip (both in terms of viability and design) because it was allowed to shine as a duelist active, one that rewarded proactive play and roaming around the map instead of being an easy one button shut down of any bullet carry. Every single change since then has only caused this item to lose more of it's unique soul, in favor of being yet another one-button auto-aim counter item. I think this rework would only serve to push withering whip even more towards a design that is boring and already accomplished by other items.

 

[ydemircinar2604]

I don't think withering whip's identity should be as a counter item (similar to slowing hex and decay). The devs agree, which is why they reworked it in the first place (by getting rid of the disarm, then reducing the cooldown and giving it fire rate). The period between August 29th - September 26th was by far the best state for withering whip (both in terms of viability and design) because it was allowed to shine as a duelist active, one that rewarded proactive play and roaming around the map instead of being an easy one button shut down of any bullet carry. Every single change since then has only caused this item to lose more of it's unique soul, in favor of being yet another one-button auto-aim counter item. I think this rework would only serve to push withering whip even more towards a design that is boring and already accomplished by other items.

I don't see what "other items" accomplish it. There are way too many gun spam builds right now. With the last big patch that changed many hard CC abilities into Silences/Disarms it seems like Valve is listening to the "CC bad me want quickscope" shooter crowd. Especially with the many caps they put on resistances, slows and fire rate reductions the game has become an M1 fest with limited build variety. It is a cheap way to balance the game. There are like 3 characters with more than 1 viable build right now.

Gun meta is cringe so we desperately need anti-gun items otherwise they will just nerf all gun damage which will just make those players' experience worse. "Screw you in PARTICULAR" type counters are both fun to play and fun to lose to in my opinion. It's why I like playing against Mo&Krill.

 

[asinar57]

I think one of the underacknowledged reasons for the strength of gun builds is specifically that there are almost no counterplay weapon items. Spirit and Health both have several items that you may or may not have to buy depending on the enemies you're going up against, and consequentially may have to sacrifice slots in order to run. With weapon builds, you're almost never deciding what items to buy during a run, and you're never having to decide between a general power up or a situational solution. If some of the counterplay items were moved to the Weapon category it would make gun builds less ubiquitous.

 

[gibnewitems]

I don't see what "other items" accomplish it. There are way too many gun spam builds right now. With the last big patch that changed many hard CC abilities into Silences/Disarms it seems like Valve is listening to the "CC bad me want quickscope" shooter crowd. Especially with the many caps they put on resistances, slows and fire rate reductions the game has become an M1 fest with limited build variety. It is a cheap way to balance the game. There are like 3 characters with more than 1 viable build right now.

Gun meta is cringe so we desperately need anti-gun items otherwise they will just nerf all gun damage which will just make those players' experience worse. "Screw you in PARTICULAR" type counters are both fun to play and fun to lose to in my opinion. It's why I like playing against Mo&Krill.

Go buff/rework some other item to fit the anti-gun role. The facts state that withering whip was at it's most balanced and fun when it was a dueling/ganking tool.

 

[ydemircinar2604]

Go buff/rework some other item to fit the anti-gun role. The facts state that withering whip was at it's most balanced and fun when it was a dueling/ganking tool.

Withering Whip is a good offensive tool early game and yes offense IS the best defense sometimes. However the annoyance with gun builds starts when the enemy Ivy is sliding at you with Rapid Rounds + Swist Striker + Burst Fire + Fleetfoot + Hunter's Aura later on in the game. Mystic Slow ain't saving you when -%45 of her fire rate is still 3000 RPM. The ONLY later-game gun counter item being a spirit item that requires damage proc is just a massive middle finger by the devs that completely stop you from reacting to ambushes and backdooring.