simon9001121
New member
Give me that shit...
We need a surrender button. You konw why because we are such a idiot.
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racecarawesomesauce
New member
Just play the game you queued up for lmfao
ddd09ish1
Member
nah, simons right
come backs are relatively rare in this game, and frankly you usually know which team wins by the first 10 minutes.
not IMPOSSIBLE, but usually if the majority of lanes lose, youve lost the game and are just stalling
ive had multiple games where ive mvp'd and gotten all/the majority of the awards, but still lost because of multiple people who had zero game sense OR were perfectly fine/good but got outplayed.
Souls are too important. Because they impact items AND levels AND abilitly points, being behind by even 500 is inredibly debilitating and snowballs frequently without drastic action.
Its even MORE dramatic if you are playing a character whose gun is not as effective as your lane opponents at popping souls.
flex slots being unlocked is the extra cherry on top.
the snow ball effect is INCREDIBLY strong this game, there HAS to be a surrender button
come backs are relatively rare in this game, and frankly you usually know which team wins by the first 10 minutes.
not IMPOSSIBLE, but usually if the majority of lanes lose, youve lost the game and are just stalling
ive had multiple games where ive mvp'd and gotten all/the majority of the awards, but still lost because of multiple people who had zero game sense OR were perfectly fine/good but got outplayed.
Souls are too important. Because they impact items AND levels AND abilitly points, being behind by even 500 is inredibly debilitating and snowballs frequently without drastic action.
Its even MORE dramatic if you are playing a character whose gun is not as effective as your lane opponents at popping souls.
flex slots being unlocked is the extra cherry on top.
the snow ball effect is INCREDIBLY strong this game, there HAS to be a surrender button
Sounds more like no need for surrender if game is like this.
Or maybe possibility to surrender after 30 minutes
kotkowski
Member
Just start farming...
Snow ball is NOT incredibly strong this game. Just like in DOTA, you're getting bonus souls if you're losing - more of them, the more you're losing. It applies to minions, players, neutral camps, urn and even mid boss. If let's say 3 people will attempt holding enemy team off the objectives, and the other 3 farms the shit out of neutral camps, you can easily get a come back.
People giving up is a fucking joke, ruining a lot of games. I had at least 7 games that could be defended and won, if it wasn't for an idiot that decided 3 minutes ago that "it's unwinnable" and went afk...
ddd09ish1
Member
in a lot of ways, i would be fine with a gated surrender after a time slot.
if they still have all four walkers, while having our shrines and patron in the battle pit, with a 60k team gap, the winner has already been determined.
OFTEN, this is also accompanied by someone being utterly pathetic and raging/harrassing myself or other team mates.
I have no interest in helping someone get a win when they have been hurling slurs at me for 10 minutes for not joining them in their 1 v 6 vs the enemy team.
ddd09ish1
Member
do you have any data to back up the bonus souls when losing?
their is no souls over time, so im not sure where you are getting that information. IF that exists, it is not well communicated, and informing the community at large would go a long way to rectifying some exceptionally poor behaviour, i would appreciate it very much!
as for snow ball NOT being strong...
thats a fairly absurd claim.
souls are: stats, ability points, and items, all in one package.
go through your lane stats for the team, and compare that to your W/L for those matches, and the correlation is probably incredibly strong.
the team that wins the most lanes almost always wins
that being said
WE AGREE that people just giving up is INCREDIBLY lame.
the game isnt over till the patron falls....but if we are playing a 5 v 6 because some jerk went afk, let me surrender and play a new game.
there is a REASON you are allowed to abandon with no penalty after 5 minutes of someone disconnecting. Why FORCE people to play with babies and quitters?
Dashiell
Member
It's amazing how you can tell who will be sitting at 0-500 MMR by reading their posts.
I have comeback games almost every day be it by my team or enemy team and it's very rarely one sided snowball.
I have comeback games almost every day be it by my team or enemy team and it's very rarely one sided snowball.
WELCOME TO DOTA. 500 souls is one item... and like 5 creeps after 10 min. If you can't play without one t1 item, you can't play with all slots either.
Wow almost like high velocity bullets item exists and allows you to counter their speed not to mention that slower guns are usually dealing 30-40 dmg headshots without items lol, so easy to harass people with them.
Almost like game incentivized you to do objectives which win the game.
It's nearly impossible to solo walker quickly sub 20 mins so maybe display some initiative and defend it from advantageous position that it gives.
League of surrendering Losers here
quintuplin12
New member
Being able to surrender means players will start to surrender at the earliest inconvenience.
I play a match to play a match, not to be back in queue again after the 5 minute mark.
Hard pass.
I play a match to play a match, not to be back in queue again after the 5 minute mark.
Hard pass.
ddd09ish1
Member
dota 2s culture is famously toxic, with rage, leavers, and severe conversation issues
In no small part, this is from being forced to play with someone for an hour, or leave ((yes, games can be shorter, but ive found that in interviews people tend to cite being locked into a specific game for extended periods as a key issue
ddd09ish1
Member
opening with an ad hominem is hardly the most successful way for me to take you seriously.It's amazing how you can tell who will be sitting at 0-500 MMR by reading their posts.
I have comeback games almost every day be it by my team or enemy team and it's very rarely one sided snowball.
WELCOME TO DOTA. 500 souls is one item... and like 5 creeps after 10 min. If you can't play without one t1 item, you can't play with all slots either.
Wow almost like high velocity bullets item exists and allows you to counter their speed not to mention that slower guns are usually dealing 30-40 dmg headshots without items lol, so easy to harass people with them.
Almost like game incentivized you to do objectives which win the game.
It's nearly impossible to solo walker quickly sub 20 mins so maybe display some initiative and defend it from advantageous position that it gives.
League of surrendering Losers here
also, i am 1525. Not the best player in the game, but above average. And i am thinking about the average ((bad)) player as i say this.
For clarity in case you missed it, i am not speaking specifically of YOUR lane if you actually read my post. I said:
"the team that wins the most lanes "ALMOST" always wins" .
YES, it is possible to win from behind, absolutely. ESPECIALLY if only one or two lanes is behind, and the other lanes are roughly even. But that doesnt change that you can , with a fairly significant success rate, see that there is a VERY STRONG correlation between which team has won the most lanes, and which team wins in the end.
Also, your post on 500 souls is incredibly disingenuous. it is not "1 item." IT is 1 item, AND an ability AND an ability point in the early game. if you hit 1k while your opponent hasnt hit 400, you are dominating the lane and can reasonably expect to be one of the most dangerous players in the entire match. 3k in particular is a massive power spike for every character, getting your ult before your opponent is a huge win for the lane and leads to very early objectives.
i do agreee on the bullet velocity idea! its a good tool in the tool box...that people dont buy, because they dont know the game very well. I tought someone literally TODAY the value of extra regen vs healing rite.
THERE IS a strong possibility that this will get better over time however, as the game goes live. i am open to this point being a feature of teh game later on.
and..yes? this is an objective game? im not sure what your post is trying to do there
Is that somehow deflecting what i said? IT doesnt appear to be.....
as for "nearly impossible to solo walker quickly sub 20 mins...." no...? The first walker USUALLY goes down in the first 20 minutes, and the second one is hardly out of the question. ITs part of why you need to kill two walkers now to unlock a flex slot, the first walker usually goes down fairly quickly...
Theos
New member
If we do get a surrender feature, I feel like it should only be unlocked at 25 minutes or higher. Comebacks are much possible in this game.
That is simply not true. Even dying a couple of times in lane phase doesn't set the lane's or the game's direction definitively. It can make it harder, of course, but it is winnable. The only case where this could be true is if you die when already playing at disadvantage like against your hero's counter or something, but even so, swapping lanes is still possible.
Pushing lanes is incredibly easy and backdooring can be super strong. Taking objectives as the losing side is not hard, and it gets easier if you're playing a hero that excels at it. This is not an issue.
This is a good reason for a surrender, but, how frequent would say those types of matches are? It's not common to be THAT behind in a match, and the only reason that I can think for this to happen is: New and unexperienced or simply bad players. And what is a good way of getting rid of new/bad players? Playing the game and increasing your MMR. Eventually those type of matches become even more rare than they already are.
No one is being forced. If someone leaves, you can quit. If there is a rager, mute and report them. As for AFK players, I assume we will eventually get auto-kicks for someone who is idle, allowing for the rest of the team to quit. Although we can't even know if the permission to quit without penalty will still be a thing when the game launches. We can only wait and see.
Imagine expensive late game items don't get tested enough because people wanna surrender 10 minutes into the game.
"Why waste your time to comeback on a casual match?" For the same reason you queued for it: To play the game. Going by your logic, you don't have any reason to be playing a playtest.
That is simply not true. Even dying a couple of times in lane phase doesn't set the lane's or the game's direction definitively. It can make it harder, of course, but it is winnable. The only case where this could be true is if you die when already playing at disadvantage like against your hero's counter or something, but even so, swapping lanes is still possible.
Pushing lanes is incredibly easy and backdooring can be super strong. Taking objectives as the losing side is not hard, and it gets easier if you're playing a hero that excels at it. This is not an issue.
This is a good reason for a surrender, but, how frequent would say those types of matches are? It's not common to be THAT behind in a match, and the only reason that I can think for this to happen is: New and unexperienced or simply bad players. And what is a good way of getting rid of new/bad players? Playing the game and increasing your MMR. Eventually those type of matches become even more rare than they already are.
No one is being forced. If someone leaves, you can quit. If there is a rager, mute and report them. As for AFK players, I assume we will eventually get auto-kicks for someone who is idle, allowing for the rest of the team to quit. Although we can't even know if the permission to quit without penalty will still be a thing when the game launches. We can only wait and see.
Imagine expensive late game items don't get tested enough because people wanna surrender 10 minutes into the game.
"Why waste your time to comeback on a casual match?" For the same reason you queued for it: To play the game. Going by your logic, you don't have any reason to be playing a playtest.
ddd09ish1
Member
ive already adresssed some of this in an earlier post BUT i think the BEST argument against a surrender button atm is the last one
game is in early development! we NEED to see what the late game is like!
and yes, hard agree, IF they DO add a surrender button, it should be only allowed DEEP into a game, ike 25-35 minute mark,
as this conversation continues, I feel I have failed my civic duty to point out much earlier that this is feedback and not a bug report.
