Talon Bug: Ult not stacking with grace period

[dafinch]

Had at least 3 separate occasions in this last game where i hit an enemy and they get bodied within the next second, but receive no stack. Do assists not count? Was the balance change reverted? Is there an update available?

Only lead is that i hit a group of 3, one died, and the other two were assists shortly after, but the assists didnt count. Another lead is that i birdbombed right as i died, vs a geist maybe since she got the kill on me, it frazzled my stacks? Dunno, but may have cost the game. Or was a UI bug.
Sandbox mode shows the stacks working properly.

Pls fix.

MatchID: 1667125
View attachment Deadlock - 2024-09-27 4-32-35 AMowlbug3.mp4
View attachment Deadlock - 2024-09-27 4-27-42 AMowlbug2.mp4
View attachment Deadlock - 2024-09-27 4-25-10 AMOwlbug.mp4

 

[Spektrum]

His Guided Owl only stacks with confirmed kills not assists.

 

[dafinch]

His Guided Owl only stacks with confirmed kills not assists.

On detonation? or does talon need to pickup the kill after detonation, cause kills from det always have stacked.

 

[Spektrum]

On detonation? or does talon need to pickup the kill after detonation, cause kills from det always have stacked.

It should be from detonation. But I don't know if the new "Buffer Period" in the patch notes is that you kill someone with guided owl you have the last hit with the owl then wait 3 seconds and you get the stack.

But as i see in the last video you do actually get a stack for the kill.

 

[dafinch]

It should be from detonation. But I don't know if the new "Buffer Period" in the patch notes is that you kill someone with guided owl you have the last hit with the owl then wait 3 seconds and you get the stack.

But as i see in the last video you do actually get a stack for the kill.

Right, but im surprised i didnt get another stack for the follow up kill my teammates made to the mirage. If talon needs to get the kill, then that explains why it works in hero test, but the patch note is a bit ambiguous,

"- Grey Talon: Guided Owl bonus spirit on death now has a 3s buffer window"

But only for grey talon's kills? Teammates finishers don't count? It also doesn't change the interaction with Mystic Reverb, even with cooldown.
It throws me off because even though Mo/Krill get stacks, even before the patch they didnt need the kill to build theirs. A teammate could kill them in Combo and Mo/Krill still get the stack.

 

[Spektrum]

Right, but im surprised i didnt get another stack for the follow up kill my teammates made to the mirage. If talon needs to get the kill, then that explains why it works in hero test, but the patch note is a bit ambiguous,

"- Grey Talon: Guided Owl bonus spirit on death now has a 3s buffer window"

But only for grey talon's kills? Teammates finishers don't count? It also doesn't change the interaction with Mystic Reverb, even with cooldown.
It throws me off because even though Mo/Krill get stacks, even before the patch they didnt need the kill to build theirs. A teammate could kill them in Combo and Mo/Krill still get the stack.

I am also a bit confused on how the new buffer window works. But I think the concept is the same. You have to secure the kill. If it's an assist it doesn't count.

Either it's you use owl, enemy got 1 hp you hit them with your 1 right after and finish them off and that counts as a stack if it's before 3 seconds of hitting the owl.

And I think Mo/Krill is more a CC than a finisher so it could probably count on assists where Owl is more of a high damage finisher

 

[dafinch]

I am also a bit confused on how the new buffer window works. But I think the concept is the same. You have to secure the kill. If it's an assist it doesn't count.

Either it's you use owl, enemy got 1 hp you hit them with your 1 right after and finish them off and that counts as a stack if it's before 3 seconds of hitting the owl.

And I think Mo/Krill is more a CC than a finisher so it could probably count on assists where Owl is more of a high damage finisher

It seems that Mo/Krill also need to get the kill post Combo as well. Unless its just character swapping jank in sandbox mode, it seems like the buffer is for kills to the caster only. Mo/Krill's quantifier is "If the enemy dies during combo", While Grey Talons' is "Gain permanent spirit power for each enemy hero killed by Guided Owl"

Shame really, because lategame becomes so much of a clusterfuck you cant reliably secure kills (Unless you properly executed them with Guided Owl). There is at least a .25-.5 second swap time back time to resume control of talon, so you have 2.5ish seconds, 1 to fullcharge your Arrow, and the other 1.5 seconds to let rip.

Some leeway is better then none, but this change doesn't mean too much with these results being what they are. Late game you are better off interrupting someone with your bird, or just sending it to a troop loaded lane to stop pushes/farm. Especially now that the lanes are further apart.. Well, that and the troop ai being a bit special since the map change. Dont quite know what a mid/ lategame kill is worth, but getting 300-700 souls on a good cluster is much more worth the ult. Even more so if your enemies are repeatedly ratting.

 

[Spektrum]

It seems that Mo/Krill also need to get the kill post Combo as well. Unless its just character swapping jank in sandbox mode, it seems like the buffer is for kills to the caster only. Mo/Krill's quantifier is "If the enemy dies during combo", While Grey Talons' is "Gain permanent spirit power for each enemy hero killed by Guided Owl"

Shame really, because lategame becomes so much of a clusterfuck you cant reliably secure kills (Unless you properly executed them with Guided Owl). There is at least a .25-.5 second swap time back time to resume control of talon, so you have 2.5ish seconds, 1 to fullcharge your Arrow, and the other 1.5 seconds to let rip.

Some leeway is better then none, but this change doesn't mean too much with these results being what they are. Late game you are better off interrupting someone with your bird, or just sending it to a troop loaded lane to stop pushes/farm. Especially now that the lanes are further apart.. Well, that and the troop ai being a bit special since the map change. Dont quite know what a mid/ lategame kill is worth, but getting 300-700 souls on a good cluster is much more worth the ult. Even more so if your enemies are repeatedly ratting.

Yea I agree with late game.

If you do play with a friend though and an enemy gets away from them with low health he could call it out and you might be able to catch him with your Owl and play it that way to secure that extra spirit you gain.

But yea. I usually use the Owl to stun at late game in team fights more than I use it as a finisher.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

A teammate could kill them in Combo and Mo/Krill still get the stack.

their pupose is different and owl scaling is alredy insane and it execute if you are put down 22% iirc. krill is more kill them while i hold them.


As for late game i dont think that that ammount of power really translates to anything meaningfull. when it matters is early game when you dont have much and those stacks can be from 25% of your power to 10%, specially after item locked. i do know talon loves spirit power but when you have 200 power already at that stage the stacking is absolutly irrelevant. In that case hp on mo has mroe value since its a bigger % of the total he can have and hp is naturally a better stat than spirit, and ofc mo uses hp so well by the virtue of having the more defensive stats on demand over anyone.

But in sandbox, with a bot with tormentor pulse assists are giving me stacks. so idk what the intent was. they said they fixed a bug that the owl had to kill but sandbox shows ally tormentor pulse kills give stacks.