T3 Spirit Item - Chains Of Exhaustion

[DeadlockPlayer123]

Chains Of Exhaustion
§ 3,000

+125 Bullet Shield Health
+125 Spirit Shield Health
+12% Weapon Damage
+4 Spirit Power

Active 35s
Fire a projectile that binds the first enemy it hits into 3 chains and reduces his outgoing damage. While bound, the enemy is immobilized and cannot use any movement abilities or dash. Each chain can be destroyed by enemies with a single shot. When all chains are destroyed, the binding effect disappears earlier.
3s Binding Duration
3 Chains
1 Shots To Break Each Chain
-20% Damage Penalty (conditional)
5s Debuff Duration

Description of how the item works:
This item fires a projectile in exactly the same way as Silence Glyph and works almost similarly to Vindicta's Stake ability. Instead of tethering the enemy and giving them a small space to move around, this item completely immobilizes the enemy, forcing them to destroy every chain to free themselves.
Many may think that 3 seconds is a lot to do this, but I reiterate the way the item works: the chains can be destroyed by every hero on the enemy team. That is, if there are too many enemies or the victim has too high a rate of fire, the item will not hold still for long. It is also worth considering that it is not so easy to hit with this item.

Here below are professional illustrations of how it works:

What do you think?

 

[micbenso66]

I think the immobilization is enough for 3k item. Inhibitor is 6k.

but, im not sure 1 shot per chain is enough as some hero's can literally break that in less than a second. But 3 seconds is long. Maybe change it to not be break able but is half the duration and remove the damage penalty. Could replace with a different effect that affects mobility like stops stam regen for 3-5 seconds.

OR a damage amp on the target (Im thinking about Gleipner in Dota 2 which is similar to this)

Also, as a Calico main, i hate this item as I am sure it will make it very difficult for me to fight/escape.

 

[mixail.kapranov]

so, a better warden cage? there is a reason why zero items in the game (except a curse) give instantaneous ensnare/stun. its just too good of an utility to have. imagine all those poor souls struggling against bebop's pull. Now, give him THIS. Who cares about silence when u can just immobilize the enemy? it will be completely broken.

It could be a cool ability though. (but still i struggle to compare it to warden's cage, which pales in comparison).

 

[micbenso66]

so, a better warden cage? there is a reason why zero items in the game (except a curse) give instantaneous ensnare/stun. its just too good of an utility to have. imagine all those poor souls struggling against bebop's pull. Now, give him THIS. Who cares about silence when u can just immobilize the enemy? it will be completely broken.

It could be a cool ability though. (but still i struggle to compare it to warden's cage, which pales in comparison).

While i feel this sentiment, I do not believe that this ability or item like this that roots in this way will never be added. Its inevitable. Just like power creep and mobility creep are inevitable.

 

[DeadlockPlayer123]

I think the immobilization is enough for 3k item. Inhibitor is 6k.

but, im not sure 1 shot per chain is enough as some hero's can literally break that in less than a second. But 3 seconds is long. Maybe change it to not be break able but is half the duration and remove the damage penalty. Could replace with a different effect that affects mobility like stops stam regen for 3-5 seconds.

OR a damage amp on the target (Im thinking about Gleipner in Dota 2 which is similar to this)

Also, as a Calico main, i hate this item as I am sure it will make it very difficult for me to fight/escape.

I heard you. Sorry. I'm a hater of Holliday and Calico. (at least until they get nerfed)

 

[micbenso66]

I heard you. Sorry. I'm a hater of Holliday and Calico. (at least until they get nerfed)

I hate Holiday too. Calico power is discussed near daily in the calico discord. many of us agree she is strong in certain situations like a 1v1, but isnt actually op. Its mostly people not playing to counter her correctly or she is snowballing.

She plays very much like a typical duelist/assassin from any moba.

And yes, this item would directly mess up her life.

So i dont see her getting a nerf. Maybe a mini QoL adjustment so her 1 and 2 lands correctly but that means that her damage becomes more consistent so then her numbers will be nerfed. Many will see this as a nerf but then be confused why she is still doing well.

Beyond that, i dont see her getting direct nerfs. Indirect from items being added and nerfed that she uses more likely. (like Debuff remover getting nerfed)

 

[Rosgath]

I hate Holiday too. Calico power is discussed near daily in the calico discord. many of us agree she is strong in certain situations like a 1v1, but isnt actually op. Its mostly people not playing to counter her correctly or she is snowballing.

She plays very much like a typical duelist/assassin from any moba.

And yes, this item would directly mess up her life.

So i dont see her getting a nerf. Maybe a mini QoL adjustment so her 1 and 2 lands correctly but that means that her damage becomes more consistent so then her numbers will be nerfed. Many will see this as a nerf but then be confused why she is still doing well.

Beyond that, i dont see her getting direct nerfs. Indirect from items being added and nerfed that she uses more likely. (like Debuff remover getting nerfed)

I'm not in the dedicated Calico Discord, but I see the Calico channel on the official Deadlock Discord and there are at least a few very loud voices insisting that Calico is OP (She's not, rush a Slowing Hex and she's done for).

I do think she farms much better than most Duelist/Assassins in other MOBAs (her 2 is one of the best farming tools in game) but besides that I would generally agree with you.

The biggest difference is that she has very poor late game scaling, meaning that she has to transition to a bruiser/tank style late game in order to retain relevance whereas most Assassin/Duelist characters I see in other MOBAs specialize in capitalizing on poor late game positioning, or deleting squishy backliners.

 

[micbenso66]

I'm not in the dedicated Calico Discord, but I see the Calico channel on the official Deadlock Discord and there are at least a few very loud voices insisting that Calico is OP (She's not, rush a Slowing Hex and she's done for).

I do think she farms much better than most Duelist/Assassins in other MOBAs (her 2 is one of the best farming tools in game) but besides that I would generally agree with you.

The biggest difference is that she has very poor late game scaling, meaning that she has to transition to a bruiser/tank style late game in order to retain relevance whereas most Assassin/Duelist characters I see in other MOBAs specialize in capitalizing on poor late game positioning, or deleting squishy backliners.

I meant that channel is what i mean, and I saw you respond as well to the debate we had this weekend lol

And IDK about the farm thing. In LoL most assassins farm just fine. I mained Talon and half an item in you can clear range minions in one use of 2.

In Smite, most of the assassin are designed to not be able to Lane so they are all junglers where they farm fine.

And ive mentioned this before too. She doesnt have poor scaling, she has the same issue all assassin/duelist end up having. They dont have good team fight capabilities. In LoL and Smite, if you are not snowballing hard then you simply splitpush and try to force 1-2 to come to you knowing that you are likely to be able to win that or split then rotate to the fight to pick off the enemy carry in the backline. Calico has that exact design.

the real question is, is that design good for deadlock? Calico plays like Talon in LoL (massive burst, lots of speed, uses terrain to their advantage, ult is good for both damage and escaping) but builds more like Fenrir in Smite (very easily kills almost everyone early game, but by mid game needs to start building bruiser for some hp or he gets cced and melted in a team fight).

 

[gibnewitems]

While i feel this sentiment, I do not believe that this ability or item like this that roots in this way will never be added. Its inevitable. Just like power creep and mobility creep are inevitable.

That's supposed to be a bad thing, not something to strive for.

 

[micbenso66]

That's supposed to be a bad thing, not something to strive for.

I know lol. Still inevitable.

Have you seen the Tooltips in new LoL characters versus old ones? It will happen here too.

I dont think game devs can help themselves.

 

[Rosgath]

I know lol. Still inevitable.

Have you seen the Tooltips in new LoL characters versus old ones? It will happen here too.

I dont think game devs can help themselves.

I'd like to think the end-goal is to make a MOBA that takes such a long time to creep up to that point that you'd need to release an entirely new game before it becomes too cumbersome.

It's part of the reason I advocate strongly for systems that add additional depth to individual characters and existing rosters over just expanding the rosters too regularly. LoL and DotA both struggle from massive bloat in their hero pools, which make the games next to impossible to approach for new players. Deadlock is still in Alpha so it has the opportunity to combat that kind of thing early (Via systems like DotA's new Aspects) and make them more baseline and understood. This reduces the burden of needing to constantly expand the hero roster (because the community will have to take longer chewing on each individual addition and as such, get more out of each one) and by extension reduces the effects of power creep.

All that said, the item in question about this topic feels a touch too convoluted to me.

 

[micbenso66]

I'd like to think the end-goal is to make a MOBA that takes such a long time to creep up to that point that you'd need to release an entirely new game before it becomes too cumbersome.

It's part of the reason I advocate strongly for systems that add additional depth to individual characters and existing rosters over just expanding the rosters too regularly. LoL and DotA both struggle from massive bloat in their hero pools, which make the games next to impossible to approach for new players. Deadlock is still in Alpha so it has the opportunity to combat that kind of thing early (Via systems like DotA's new Aspects) and make them more baseline and understood. This reduces the burden of needing to constantly expand the hero roster (because the community will have to take longer chewing on each individual addition and as such, get more out of each one) and by extension reduces the effects of power creep.

All that said, the item in question about this topic feels a touch too convoluted to me.

I do hope they add in some of dota's new systems here. I really like the idea of the personal neutral item and i love the... choice thing when you pick a character. cant remember what it is but changes one thing about how your character plays.

 

[gibnewitems]

I know lol. Still inevitable.

Have you seen the Tooltips in new LoL characters versus old ones? It will happen here too.

I dont think game devs can help themselves.

I don't think this will happen here (at least in the way that it does in LOL) because the base floor of movement in Deadlock is so much higher. Deadlock's variant of AD carries have access to movement options (stamina, sprint, ziplines, source movement in general, etc) that would put some of the most mobile divers and assassins in lol to shame. Just because of how movement naturally works in Deadlock, we are never going to see design and restraint fail to the point where a kit like Annie could exist and be expected to compete in the same game as Y*ne anytime soon, if at all.

Now, that doesn't rule out power creep happening through something other than mobility. 10 years from now, we could be seeing excessive AoE healing making everything practically immortal, every other hero release having a get out of jail free card ability more egregious and obnoxious than the last release, and CC abilities getting so out of hand to the point that unstoppable has to become a tier 3 item with very little change to keep the people who pick damage dealers from quitting en masse. I'm not a betting man, but I would wager that Deadlock's biggest power creep issue in the far future will come from sustain, not mobility.

 

[micbenso66]

I don't think this will happen here (at least in the way that it does in LOL) because the base floor of movement in Deadlock is so much higher. Deadlock's variant of AD carries have access to movement options (stamina, sprint, ziplines, source movement in general, etc) that would put some of the most mobile divers and assassins in lol to shame. Just because of how movement naturally works in Deadlock, we are never going to see design and restraint fail to the point where a kit like Annie could exist and be expected to compete in the same game as Y*ne anytime soon, if at all.

Now, that doesn't rule out power creep happening through something other than mobility. 10 years from now, we could be seeing excessive AoE healing making everything practically immortal, every other hero release having a get out of jail free card ability more egregious and obnoxious than the last release, and CC abilities getting so out of hand to the point that unstoppable has to become a tier 3 item with very little change to keep the people who pick damage dealers from quitting en masse. I'm not a betting man, but I would wager that Deadlock's biggest power creep issue in the far future will come from sustain, not mobility.

I can agree with this. Mobility is a core mechanic in this game and we already have things like lash, pocket, and ivy. To a smaller extent we have a couple speed deamons to in cali, warden and infernus. It will be really hard for this for some characters to just get super outshined. That being said its technically already started when you have a character like giest with 0 mobility built in and has to rely soley on zips, movement tech and items.

But power creep? oh yea, thats going to get out of hand slowly over time. Maybe not from heros, but from items. If not items, they add some system that.

Reason why i say its inevitable is because in order to keep the game interesting long term they have to be constantly adding and innovating. Over time, they forget what ever restrictions they are currently using for their designs. Then, when they realize this, they will start redesigning some of the oldest characters to catch them up to the power level of the newer characters.

Now, since this game is currently so ridiculous power and mobility wise, maybe this happens so slowly that it never really becomes a huge issue for the game.

But we are also so early that we all want new things added. Im hoping that all the hidden items in the coding right now are them preparing for the next patch and that all those items are going to drop at once along with some other game changes.