Supercharged bullets (this one took a lot of thought but turned out great!)
- Thread starter nathanieljbrill
- Start date
micbenso66
Active member
you have a habit of making items severally underpriced.
This is several items combined and should be something like 9k with several components.
Pristine + Torment + Ricochet esque effects in one item? Doesnt matter that it has to be stacked, several characters will be able to stack this incredibly fast.
Only saving grace here is the duration is only 1 second so as soon as the character stops doing spirit damage The buff drops off.
This is several items combined and should be something like 9k with several components.
Pristine + Torment + Ricochet esque effects in one item? Doesnt matter that it has to be stacked, several characters will be able to stack this incredibly fast.
Only saving grace here is the duration is only 1 second so as soon as the character stops doing spirit damage The buff drops off.
nathanieljbrill
Active member
The bullet velocity is a very minor part of what pristine emblem so good. The torment affect only comes after doing 1k spirit damage and quickly decays, and has an internal cooldown. The ricochet only comes after doing 400 spirit damage (the spirit damage has to be to an enemy hero btw so this tool is useless for farming), quickly decays, and only bounces once compared to ricochet's infinite bounces to enemies within range.
And to clarify the one second duration is the time to lose one stack, so if you have 10 stacks it will take 10 seconds to lose them all.
I don't think your comment makes sense as an evaluation of its strength at all. I appreciate you reading it though.
micbenso66
Active member
you also never think negative feedback makes sense so Im not surprised at all that you dont see any issue with your item only being 3k.
nathanieljbrill
Active member
I have taken negative feedback on my items many times in the past. Your criticisms on two such items just didn't make sense.
nathanieljbrill
Active member
What I'm potentially concerned about for this one for instance isn't the utility effects, but the weapon damage and the number of torment pulses being too much potentially easy damage, which could need reducing.
micbenso66
Active member
they dont make sense to you because you design items in a vacuum and dont consider the game state. Thats not how game balance works. So when I tell you that your item is underpriced (not saying change anything else) you dont accept it.
That being said -
1 stack is 100 damage, most characters can get that level one. Minor buff of extra velocity, 4% gun damage, and ability to pierce one target. This allows someone to hit more than one target with their gun.
4 stacks/400 damage - at least half the roster, if not all, can manage this easily by lvl 3. 150 velocity (assuming flat which drastically increases the 30% velocity stat), 16% gun damage and now your bullets pierce and bounce once. If i understand, this means 1 bullet can hit at least 3 targets.
7 stacks/700 damage - at least half the roster will be able to do this by the time they have ults/ 350 velocity, 28% bullet damage, maintain bullet buff and gain additional 2 m/s.
10 stacks/1000 damage - ignoring items, at least half the roster can do this by about 15 mins. Adding items guarantees this. 500 velocity (more flat velocity than 8 heroes on the roster and technically 650 when you add the extra 30%) 40% weapon damage (huge, more than 6k weapon items except glass cannon) plus an at min 150 extra burst just because from the triple torment pulse.
From there, based on how it is worded, all you have to do is continue to do spirit damage to refresh.
Just as an example, Someone like calico, yama, pocket, can dash in, land an ability and cold front damage during early mid game and deal 1k damage and have this stacked instantly.
If you dont want it to cost more then I would suggest that at 10 stacks, the stacks are "consumed" causing the torment explosion (power overload) and the buffs remain for a few seconds and the whole item is on cd for 10 seconds. That would make it a temporary "burst buff" for most characters. and just like before, I would say 3k is still too low but at least we are at a more reasonable power level for the item
micbenso66
Active member
Yes. this is a good take on this item. See my other feed back for this as I give a suggestion that could cover this.
nathanieljbrill
Active member
Oh the consuming stacks is a good concept! Though then you'd be using this as quick bonus damage instead the utility effects when you do 1k damage fast.
I'm struggling to think of a way that this would be implemented cleanly.
One thing I did consider was having the spirit damage to gain a stack scale with spirit power, so it gets slightly harder to gain stacks as it gets easier to gain stacks.
The item was originally supposed to benefit infernus the most but I couldn't figure out a way to do that. As it stands I think it benefits warden the most.
One other thing I considered was a maximum stacks gain rate per second? So like 4 per second max. This was to make it geared more towards infernus and have more of a charge effect. I ultimately don't like how that would play out though.
Oh here's a good idea. What if the stacks can only be gained 2 per second, but they increase automatically to match the damage you've dealt. So what I mean is if you do 1000 damage with a charge shot your stacks will increase 2 per second for 5 seconds whether you do more spirit damage or not. That way your bullets are charging up.
micbenso66
Active member
yes, this iteration would make it a burst item and thus benifit burst characters more. Cali, yama, lash, etc. But i can see it easilly be used on characters like wrath, haze, geist, talon.
With the consumption part added, Talon could toss 1-2 arrows and its stacked, then pop into the the air for some super shots but only for a short time.
If you are looking to make it more utility based for a slow burn character like infernus, then yea adding a cd so it cant be instantly stacked but 4 seconds way too long. Ide say .5-1 (whatever escalating icd is) so that it stacks quick but not in one single burst. This would make it kind of bad for characters like cali, talon, yama lash, but still good for characters like wraith, haze, infernus, and giest who do well in long fights. by adding a cd to the stack itself then removes the need to add the "consumption" part as I explained it. But this also makes the tournament pulses kind of silly.
How does this sound - everything stays the same except:
1 second stack icd
at 10 stacks the item "overloads" and your next 3 bullets before reloading will fire off a tesla (100% chance) and stacks reset.
Only reason why i say 1 second is that I assume people will buy cdr items. Could just make it a hard .5 or .6 second icd and it cant be effected by cdr items. And it looks like the most cdr you can get by getting all of them would be 52% any ways.
micbenso66
Active member
this could also work as a limiter but i dont think you need the damage qualifier to be that high in this case. It could be similar to improved burst 175 damage (but doesnt have to be a single ability) activates this items ramp up of 5 seconds. As you get stacks you get the extra bonuses. At 10 stacks it over loads, consuming the stacks and giving you the three 100% chance tesla shots with all of the added bonuses that just got consumed (40% increased damage plus the velocity, not sure the other things matter). then the item goes on a shortish cd before it can be reactivated.
This limiting factor drastically reduces its overall power and allows you to justify the lower cost of 3k. I really like this version actually even though I am not sure I would ever use it because i prefer burst heroses.
nathanieljbrill
Active member
Oh it could be an active! I kind of like that. I'll make a version of that.
nathanieljbrill
Active member
This is the active item version.
duration was made independent of stacks so that duration increases will benefit you.
duration was made independent of stacks so that duration increases will benefit you.nathanieljbrill
Active member
One thing I'm not happy with with this version is that it doesn't look like a spirit item anymore.
micbenso66
Active member
I think this works exactly how you want it too with enough limitation to make it worth 3k
It also combos well with other items and is thematically interesting. Works with both duration and cdr items and scales with both spirit and bullet damage.
I think this could be a good item to add.
micbenso66
Active member
yea, its very hybridy. I dont think thats a bad thing. maybe they need a different color item lol
Rosgath
Active member
I do agree that this doesn't look much like a Spirit Item anymore. It mostly just provides a lot of Spirit for a Gun item. It doesn't really... do anything to your abilities besides the +20 total Spirit it adds.
I think to make it a full on Hybrid item that would fit well into the Spirit category, I would change the description as follows:
"Your bullets charge up for the duration, gaining velocity and dealing bonus Spirit damage based on your bullet damage as well as additional effects based on the total Charge built up."
By changing the bonus damage to Spirit damage it feels a lot more like a proper Spirit damage item, even though it's spirit damage that scales with bonus Weapon damage. The Tesla effect then also makes a lot more sense. It will pair well with other Spirit items like Escalating Exposure, Bullet Resist Shredder, Mystic Vulnerability, Suppressor , and Mystic Slow.
I will also say that there are most T3 Weapon items are Hybrid, whereas relatively few T3 Spirit items are Hybrid. It would be good to see something like this to add some spirit damage to a weapon build, or Gun utility into a Spirit build
Also, I wouldn't say no to Items with 2 colors, moving to one category or the other as you fill in slots. You could even cut out a flex slot with that, I think.
That dude who plays Deadlock
Active member
Yeah, i wish they will add something like hybrid items or a new category in the future.
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