Reflector, an upgrade to Infuser

zakkadletz

New member
A Tier 2 Vitality Active item that builds out of Infuser.

"Reflector"
+ 8 Spirit Power
+ 12% Ammo
+ 70 Bullet Shield Health

Active (8 Second Duration; 60 Second Cooldown)
Gain +20% Spirit Lifesteal and reflect the next instance of spirit damage back to its source.


Applies a visual shield effect on yourself and causes the next instance of spirit damage to be negated and reflected to the source of the damage calculated using your Spirit Power and Spirit Lifesteal instead of the sources.


This would be an item designed to give more options against heavy spirit burst heroes.
Useful against the most prevalent burst heroes without outright countering them because its a single instance reflect that could be baited out and broken by smaller spirit damage instances raising the skill floor of one dimensional heroes that rely on a single big spell.
 
would be awesome especially if it was able to deflect stuns when timed right (maybe even reflect knock up effects)
 
It sounds cool and I'd like an item that helps defence against spirit burst damage, but a reflector seems a bit too powerful.

While you can bait out the shield and destroy it with a weaker spirit attack, some moves like Lash's Ground Strike require commitment from the user and can't be easily cancelled, making it easy to activate the reflector on reaction to specifically counter the specified burst attack.

The long cooldown balances it out and it'd be harder to pull off in a team fight, but being able to not only invalidate Talon, Shiv or Geist's ult, but also punish them with the reflector's own burst damage is a bit strong, especially for a T2 item.
 
It sounds cool and I'd like an item that helps defence against spirit burst damage, but a reflector seems a bit too powerful.

While you can bait out the shield and destroy it with a weaker spirit attack, some moves like Lash's Ground Strike require commitment from the user and can't be easily cancelled, making it easy to activate the reflector on reaction to specifically counter the specified burst attack.

The long cooldown balances it out and it'd be harder to pull off in a team fight, but being able to not only invalidate Talon, Shiv or Geist's ult, but also punish them with the reflector's own burst damage is a bit strong, especially for a T2 item.
well if it was made to just reflect the damage you would still take it
 
well if it was made to just reflect the damage you would still take it
True, though it could just grant 70% spirit resist for the hit instead of full invulnerability or something along those lines.
I think you did a good job balancing it, I'm just not sure how fun it'd be to fight.
 
It sounds cool and I'd like an item that helps defence against spirit burst damage, but a reflector seems a bit too powerful.

While you can bait out the shield and destroy it with a weaker spirit attack, some moves like Lash's Ground Strike require commitment from the user and can't be easily cancelled, making it easy to activate the reflector on reaction to specifically counter the specified burst attack.

The long cooldown balances it out and it'd be harder to pull off in a team fight, but being able to not only invalidate Talon, Shiv or Geist's ult, but also punish them with the reflector's own burst damage is a bit strong, especially for a T2 item.
I thought of the item because of my frustrations playing against lash and bebop bomb specifically. After sleeping on it I do see how its an outlier in power for a 1750 cost item. I imagine that if this item was implemented it would be a counterpart to Return Fire which would lose its portions of spirit resist/return and focus entirely on gun damage again.

Perhaps if the shield only blocks 50% of the next hit and reflects it for 100%, which would then lifesteal off the damage returned granting you somewhere around 70% damage negated depending on your spirit power and spirit lifesteal. This would work doubly to nerf it in low health situations because the 50% damage would be dealt before the lifesteal of the return damage is granted meaning you could die if you were low enough.

You do make a good point about it being too effective against Talon's and Geist's Ult.
In practice you could make Gray Talon's bird the "Source" of the damage so that it wouldn't return any damage back to talon. The 3rd upgrade to Talon's ult kills anyone below 22% hp in a separate instance of damage so it would still be an effective tool for chasing down low hp heroes in the mid-late game
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Lady Geist's ult would probably have to be made as an exception.
 
The one thing that keeps infuser somewhat balanced is the fact that it doesn't build into anything. Hard pass until infuser gets gutted in the future.
 
The one thing that keeps infuser somewhat balanced is the fact that it doesn't build into anything. Hard pass until infuser gets gutted in the future.
I think Infuser has been nerfed enough that it can afford to get an upgrade. It now only gives a slight increase to Spirit power over Extra Spirit while active, and otherwise gives substantially less. The Lifesteal is good, but has also been reduced to only slightly better than Enduring spirit (though again, only on while active).
 
I think Infuser has been nerfed enough that it can afford to get an upgrade. It now only gives a slight increase to Spirit power over Extra Spirit while active, and otherwise gives substantially less. The Lifesteal is good, but has also been reduced to only slightly better than Enduring spirit (though again, only on while active).
None of the recent nerfs have been anywhere near enough to keep infuser and it's greatest abusers from running people down with just one item. Infuser is still an S tier, and anybody who can abuse it really well is still going to be very good as a result.
 
I think the theory on this one is weird. It seems like it would kill a lot clutch counterplay moves where a low health hero can survive through a killing play against the opponents instead of running away, because a lot of gameplay options are just completely shut down to you if you have to play around accidentally killing yourself with a burst dmg ability. Geist's whole thing is being low health all the time, so... what, she just can't use abilities anymore?

On the flip side there are so many low dmg and DOT spirit sources that in a teamfight it'd be super hard to hit hit this for a counter and not have it negated by something other than what you intended. Seems like it's for a specific 1v1 scenario, because that's really the only chance you'd have to use it effectively, and even then, a decay or toxic bullets on you would nullify it, otherwise it'd need to trigger like mystic burst, at a spirit dmg received threshold.

It sounds like what you're looking for is something more like a spirit-based Hunter's Aura to increase your resist and reduce their dmg, and give survivability against a solo burst gank, but its effectiveness is less (or more distributed) in team fights.
 
I think the theory on this one is weird. It seems like it would kill a lot clutch counterplay moves where a low health hero can survive through a killing play against the opponents instead of running away, because a lot of gameplay options are just completely shut down to you if you have to play around accidentally killing yourself with a burst dmg ability. Geist's whole thing is being low health all the time, so... what, she just can't use abilities anymore?

On the flip side there are so many low dmg and DOT spirit sources that in a teamfight it'd be super hard to hit hit this for a counter and not have it negated by something other than what you intended. Seems like it's for a specific 1v1 scenario, because that's really the only chance you'd have to use it effectively, and even then, a decay or toxic bullets on you would nullify it, otherwise it'd need to trigger like mystic burst, at a spirit dmg received threshold.
That's why I think it could work best if it's tied to the parry cool down and animation, with some additional visuals to show it'll bounce spells too. If you miss it, you're stunning yourself for a second, and it has a short wind-up. It would definitely still be a good item against geist, but her ult has such a short cast time that I think it'd only be a good counter to her bomb. Like a parry, it could reflect everything for a short time, so you don't have to worry about small ticks.

The counterplay argument already applies to parrying with melee, and I think in this case it could add a lot of depth to spirit fights.
Right now, IMO getting chased down by a gun hero is much more fun than a spirit hero because of how much more you can play around their attacks. Hiding around corners, veils, parrying, and jumping are all going to make a gun/melee hero work harder, but usually spirit abilities are much more reliable. There's already Metal Skin and Reflecting Bullets, and I think those items are in a great spot balance wise, I'd love to see similar options for spirit abilities.

It might be more balanced as an ability like Lotus Orb from DotA, where it reflects a copy the spell's damage, but does not stop the original instance, just reduces some damage. Then Geist's ult would be cancelled out instead of killing her, reflecting a big lash stomp or bebop bomb could help win a fight, but it won't be completely shutting these characters out.

The niche I want this to fill is giving a way to outplay simple spirit nuke abilities. My least favorite part of the game right now is going up against those big bebop/lash nukes, knowing what they're going to try and do, and not having ways to deal with it. Nukes like Talon's don't bug me, because it's something you can try and juke or bait out. But some of the big ones hit you even if you see them coming, and it doesn't feel very interactive, especially now, with Ethereal Shift being moved to 6k.

But yeah, I wouldn't want this to be a "buy this item to always kill geist", I want this to be a "buy this to engage bebop in a battle of wits" type of item.

None of the recent nerfs have been anywhere near enough to keep infuser and it's greatest abusers from running people down with just one item. Infuser is still an S tier, and anybody who can abuse it really well is still going to be very good as a result.

I'm terrible at this game, so I might be wrong. But I'd think that since this upgrade would be a Vitality item, it would be harder to slot in for a lot of heroes. And it would lose the original Infuser active, so I don't think many heroes would be interested in the upgrade. It would be like Kinetic Dash / Arcane Surge, which fill slightly different niches, and both get used on a variety of heroes.
Do you think this type of item could be fine if it didn't build out of infuser?
 
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