Parry stun needs diminishing returns if melee based hero’s are to ever become a thing in this game.

[kjamesmobile]

I think there should be a cooldown on heavy melee's to penalize spam. The timing of heavy melee should match the timing of being able to cast parry.

 

[rays1712]

I think there should be a cooldown on heavy melee's to penalize spam. The timing of heavy melee should match the timing of being able to cast parry.

Nah, thats not what you want, what you really really want is actually just deleting the melee altogether, you so scared about heavy melee that you want to nerf it, but the root of your problem is actually melee existence itself, just own it.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

I think the solution is to allow the heavy melee to be canceled, that way you can feint it and bait it out. It already has its own baked in drawback which is that you're wasting time charging up the melee attack (and especially if they don't end up parrying anyways)

being able to cancel it is really unhealthy since parry cannot be canceled as well if it coudl then perhaps? because what you can very easily do with abams and mo is raw heavy you and you are either eating it or they use book/scorn and then you are there parrying as they charge a 2nd that will hit and you know how easy it is to peel off those 2. can also do with paradox, a tech people do in solo to psuh a wave in is when they are in ramp to lower and heavy kill them so enemy counte tech is to roll or posture thjey will block your heavy and behind the wall they might lose 1 but they are lookign to steal your orbs at closer range than you and can even use melee hitbox lingering to guarantee it. So you do the tech go for the heavy they block cast 3 it stops the heavy heavy them shoot (time stop) heavy again and they eat 250 damage because you can if they dotn block then you just clear and do your optimal play patern, and its already not easy to steal from paradox 5 burts where she can kind of cover the orb like a bebop.

I dont think the complexity of some can cancel and some can is particularly interesting. its a well i win or you lose because i know this and you don't. its not really im better i jsut know this niche cheese. like getting outplayed, kudos to you, but bebop can parry mid uppercut? i don't view this as you played better just you can do things others cannot and for the most part, people just dont know. Its not depth, depth is the lane manipulation, weapon match up and heavy swings to bait, and that's good.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

I think there should be a cooldown on heavy melee's to penalize spam. The timing of heavy melee should match the timing of being able to cast parry.

if i am beating you for your lunch money i will not be stopped because god doesn't let me much more often than i want. i am going to bully you until you get up and fight back

 

[Gm4n5iX]

you could remove universal melee and go full dota by separating heroes into ranged and melee primary fire.

This is my real issue with, say, Abrams. I KNOW he wants to come pound on my face, but his gun does A LOT of damage for him being able to hammer me into pulp. Pick ONE of these and then I will be happy.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

you could remove universal melee and go full dota by separating heroes into ranged and melee primary fire.

And how can melee box man live in a world where vindicta, grey, infernus or viscous exist? you want to have to chase a ball that stuns on contact for 300 damage or stay in the fire?

 

[IgorNL]

Parry stun duration either needs reduced or we need diminishing returns on it. Idk how long it is currently. Im thinking like 4 seconds? This is plenty of time to 100-0 someone especially late game. If you do survive that stun, youll have maybe 1/4th of your hp bar at most.

The problem with this- there is no diminishing return. So if you melee again and get parried again you sit another 4 second stun and its forsure gg’s now.

They need to make it like this:

first parry stun - 4 seconds

second parry stun - 2 seconds

3rd parry stun - 1 second

after that youd be immune to parry stun for around 15 sec.

This is how diminishing returns work in games like world of warcraft and its specifically so mechanics that negate entire play styles cant be abused.

Ik its a shooter, but theyre clearly are leaning into the melee elements by adding loads of melee items. If melee is to just be a fun secondary thing then its fine how it is now. But if they wanna take it a step further and continue to add more melee items in the shop and more melee themed heros in the future something needs to be done about parry stun duration. As an abrams main ive had loads of fun punching, but he is falling off hard now that my mmr is much higher and players see his punches coming from a mile away. At high mmr to use a heavy melee attack is almost always a guaranteed death regardless of what hero youre playing.

I think it's fine the way it is, the only thing I would change is the stun time for heavy punches and light punches, parrying a light punch should be half the duration, other than that the parry is fine the way it is. There are several things you can do to avoid the parry, such as doing a bait punch, you pretend you're going to hit the enemy and turn to the other side to miss the punch and make the enemy waste the parry for nothing, in the cooldown you will be able to do 2 heavy punches and 1 light punch before he has the parry again.

 

[Jebedaih311]

There’s a lot of misinformation in this thread regarding Melee. Melee in this game has become completely worthless. Abrams is essentially ineffective unless you're playing with a group of people who don’t know how to parry. With the constant crowd control from heroes and the parry mechanic, it's incredibly difficult to play as this character. Abrams is designed to get in your face and punch, but now everyone knows how to parry, and the cooldowns and punishments for getting hit are outrageous. If you get parried once as Abrams, you’re basically dead. It didn’t used to be like this. Between Wraith, Mirage, Mo, Krill, and other heroes like them, you’re constantly being crowd-controlled in group combat. Now factor that into the fact that almost every character has range, it's hard to get on them and then they can also parry when you finally do get them in a tough space. It's not fun anymore.

I’ve always preferred playing as a back ally fighter, but that’s the only way Abrams is useful now, in most games. He needs to gank, because in a team fight, he just gets focused and dies instantly. I've gone from finishing games 13-7 to maybe getting 3-17 in the last two weeks. I don’t know what you all did, but the melee and parry mechanics have broken this game. It’s not balanced in any way. The other arguments in this thread aren’t helpful or accurate; they come from players who usually main non-melee characters. Melee characters, with only one in the game, are essentially useless in pickup games; you really need a coordinated team.

Honestly, parry shouldn’t even be in the game; maybe it should occur once every three minutes or something. There needs to be a balance between constantly being able to parry vs the window for a melee character with a very short range gun. This game was so much fun a month ago, but you’ve really wrecked it with the matchmaking changes and item nerfs. Please fix Abrams so he’s enjoyable to play again. I understand that having a 13-7 record in most games might not be typical, but he’s no longer fun to play at all.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

This game was so much fun a month ago, but you’ve really wrecked it with the matchmaking changes and item nerfs.

Don't you think you just find better players now? From your eye test aren't people just better so the simple playstyle of melee is harder to pull off. also if you read carefully you see the melee has been buff until last patch where it got hit a little, just a smidge but its still up from months ago.

 

[Jebedaih311]

Don't you think you just find better players now? From your eye test aren't people just better so the simple playstyle of melee is harder to pull off. also if you read carefully you see the melee has been buff until last patch where it got hit a little, just a smidge but its still up from months ago.

Yeah, but with the slight changes to Abrams and adjustments to store items, the balance feels off. The playstyle is much more complicated than just punching. You have to get close to your opponent, find a way to slow them down, and then still close the gap before you can use your skills and engage in that punchy playstyle. It's way more challenging than people who say, 'You just punch people,' realize. Everyone is so fast and certain characters can basically fly with the right items. Go watch Eido play Pocket.

Pocket can literally fly under the right circumstances, using the briefcase as a mortar from the air, or a Vindicta that never touches the ground, especially when the other players on the team are Mirage, Mo, Krill, or a Wraith. Nowadays, the odds are stacked against Abrams. You finally get close, and then you have to land punches and bait out parries to be successful.

I understand that the game has many counterplays, and I shouldn't just be able to punch you twice and win, but there's a whole metagame just to get into punching range. Most other heroes don't require that level of strategy. Go watch AverageJonas or Eido play Pocket, Seven, or Bebop. No other character has such a unique metagame like Abrams, and now that everyone knows how to parry, it’s even tougher. Meanwhile, other characters with just a basic understanding can easily crowd control, attack from range, fly, or become unapproachable to a slow, hulking character like Abrams who punches with a very short-range gun. The minor changes they've made have greatly impacted that one character.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

Pocket can literally fly under the right circumstances

with majestic leap everyone can fly. also pocket is basically puck so naturally hard to compare anyone to what seams the master of movement in the game.

The example you show means that as you see the teams you need to think:" i should not go punch here". if you can not that is up toyou always but fighting around the bridges and shops at mid is much better than in the open. now it creates stress on both parties where you dont want to go in the open and they dont want to go near the ground or close quarters but to rotate through lanes they have at some point or to enter your base.

you can get melee lifesteal and spirit punch to bully or surivive lane and then just get into hunter and bezerker and play close range but not go for melee's as much unless you get a stun confirm ( yourself getting phantom or leap is great). And you are abrams you're one of the heavy cancel characters you cannot get parried as long you dont cast your 1 1st so once they are down, you decide if they eat it or eat it.

I don't think every character needs to be amazing, while now the likes of Garen are picked in high mmr, historically that is a pub character, the same way in dota LD has been a elite only character or specialist and now with a facet its basically a normal carry that just gets more bank for his buck. its ok to have lower skill characters that also dont have as much ceiling though if flyers are ever an issue slowing hex should allow you to melee close quater fight enough for them to die from range anyway. even if not full ramp up shotguns still hurt