Mystic Sniper (T3 Combo weapon Item Long Range+Mystic Shot)

[Rosgath]

This was just an idea that popped into my head on my way to work today. Thought I'd put it out here and see what ya'll think.



Of Note: The overall bonus Weapon damage is lower than the 2 items combined. This is intentional and is because it combines 2 separate weapon items and is the cost for the increased slot efficiency.

With no bonus CDR, The Cooldown of the shot will now go down to 2s at 200 spirit. I think this is a pretty fair effect given that the item is only 500 souls short of a T4 item.

 

[micbenso66]

This is how I want to see items done. I want two see two different items combined to make a new item as is traditional to mobas.

This extra efficiency though would likely make the extra slots overkill on items unfortunately. So they wouldnt need to remove them and revamp item design, or items in general are weaker but keep the extra slots.

I also really like Dota 2's new neutral item craft system to make your own special item for yourself.

 

[Rosgath]

This is how I want to see items done. I want two see two different items combined to make a new item as is traditional to mobas.

This extra efficiency though would likely make the extra slots overkill on items unfortunately. So they wouldnt need to remove them and revamp item design, or items in general are weaker but keep the extra slots.

I also really like Dota 2's new neutral item craft system to make your own special item for yourself.

I did reduce the overall weapon damage from the combined items. (The 2 combined are 42% overall bonus weapon damage. This is only 30% bonus weapon damage) I did increase the spirit a small amount (+4 over Mystic Shot) and the Bullet shield a tiny amount (+10 over Long Range) and added it's own unique stat (increased maximum bullet range) but I don't think those really exceed the values of a T4 item. To be noted, because it has the component of Long Range, it also blocks you out from picking up Sharpshooter.

That said, do you think it needs to have more reduced stats? I'm not sure it would see much use if it did.

 

[micbenso66]

I did reduce the overall weapon damage from the combined items. (The 2 combined are 42% overall bonus weapon damage. This is only 30% bonus weapon damage) I did increase the spirit a small amount (+4 over Mystic Shot) and the Bullet shield a tiny amount (+10 over Long Range) and added it's own unique stat (increased maximum bullet range) but I don't think those really exceed the values of a T4 item. To be noted, because it has the component of Long Range, it also blocks you out from picking up Sharpshooter.

That said, do you think it needs to have more reduced stats? I'm not sure it would see much use if it did.

i think it would need to be tested from here. Unlike others ive seen, this seems like a solid start and doesnt create crazy scenarios. It just a longer range version of mystic shot that has some extra stats.

Total weapon damage being 30% is a lot. t4s are usually 38% iirr. But the spirit isnt super high. Its lower than Pristine and t2 purples. That might even be too low.

The mystic shot growth at .8 means that if this is a spirit build, that shot is going to be hurting and it seems like a decent item that I would build one someone like a spirit build calico for finishing people off. Gives a nice weapon slot that helps with that play style. Would work similar for other characters that have a spirit build and shotgun with awful falloff.

Then there are other characters that its obviously good on but doesnt necessarily like sharpshooter. Like many people dont like sharpshooter on mirage for example. But the like both mystic and long range.

Thats also why I like this style of item design. 2 different items then combined with a "recipe" cost that helps with efficiency but isnt necessarily stronger than a t4 purchase. But you can apply this to all levels of items. 2 500s. 2 1250s, 2 3ks etc.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

Ah, that's a good cooldown effect. Good item.

 

[Rosgath]

i think it would need to be tested from here. Unlike others ive seen, this seems like a solid start and doesnt create crazy scenarios. It just a longer range version of mystic shot that has some extra stats.

Total weapon damage being 30% is a lot. t4s are usually 38% iirr. But the spirit isnt super high. Its lower than Pristine and t2 purples. That might even be too low.

The mystic shot growth at .8 means that if this is a spirit build, that shot is going to be hurting and it seems like a decent item that I would build one someone like a spirit build calico for finishing people off. Gives a nice weapon slot that helps with that play style. Would work similar for other characters that have a spirit build and shotgun with awful falloff.

Then there are other characters that its obviously good on but doesnt necessarily like sharpshooter. Like many people dont like sharpshooter on mirage for example. But the like both mystic and long range.

Thats also why I like this style of item design. 2 different items then combined with a "recipe" cost that helps with efficiency but isnt necessarily stronger than a t4 purchase. But you can apply this to all levels of items. 2 500s. 2 1250s, 2 3ks etc.

It is designed to be a luxury purchase for Spirit builds. Since it's a Weapon item, it can provide a lot of spirit damage for heroes who either have already blown through all of their abilities, or don't have a lot of sustained Spirit damage in the first place.

The downside is that it works best on heroes who already have good Spirit Scaling. I imagine this would be a first or second luxury pick on Grey Talon pretty much every match, but besides him everyone else would pick it based on if they have enough Spirit to reduce the CD on the effect to a degree that it becomes worth the extra 4250 souls over Mystic Shot.

I also think this would give a good decision point for Vindicta players who would have to decide between Sharpshooter and this. If they are going more heavy Spirit, they'll want Mystic Sniper but if they are going more bullet build they would want Sharpshooter.

I will also admit I don't play either Vindicta or Grey Talon, but the idea came to me nonetheless.

 

[micbenso66]

It is designed to be a luxury purchase for Spirit builds. Since it's a Weapon item, it can provide a lot of spirit damage for heroes who either have already blown through all of their abilities, or don't have a lot of sustained Spirit damage in the first place.

The downside is that it works best on heroes who already have good Spirit Scaling. I imagine this would be a first or second luxury pick on Grey Talon pretty much every match, but besides him everyone else would pick it based on if they have enough Spirit to reduce the CD on the effect to a degree that it becomes worth the extra 4250 souls over Mystic Shot.

I also think this would give a good decision point for Vindicta players who would have to decide between Sharpshooter and this. If they are going more heavy Spirit, they'll want Mystic Sniper but if they are going more bullet build they would want Sharpshooter.

I will also admit I don't play either Vindicta or Grey Talon, but the idea came to me nonetheless.

Yea, this is the obvious heros that would enjoy such an item.

But then there are characters like pocket or Geist. Also obvious.

less obvious, abrams. Calico. Moe and Krill. They have spirit builds and this item could be a nice upgrade after holding mystic shot for 40 mins and the game still going lol. (i would even get it early-ish on Calico, sounds like a really good item for my spirit build and mystic shot can proc Improved burst).

 

[steventheeven3]

I think "8m maximum bullet range" only helps bepop and viscous alt fire

Additionally, the "reduce damage fall off" stat that you can see on Sharpshooter already increases the max range of these two, so you'd probably want that stat instead so it benefits all heroes in some way

 

[Rosgath]

I think "8m maximum bullet range" only helps bepop and viscous alt fire

Additionally, the "reduce damage fall off" stat that you can see on Sharpshooter already increases the max range of these two, so you'd probably want that stat instead so it benefits all heroes in some way

All heroes have a maximum falloff range. Abrams is 46m whereas Vindicta is 64.

The increased maximum range makes it easier for shorter range heroes to take advantage of the Long Range passive, but also gives Long Range heroes potential to pick enemies off from impossible distances. The damage falloff makes that hard, but it does help.

Also, because the fall off range maximum is increased, that also makes it so that your damage reduction for range takes longer to scale up, increasing damage at all ranges, though by a harder to gauge value. (Basically, shooting someone at 50m doors more damage with this item because they are at a lower % of their maximum range, meaning lower damage penalty)

 

[steventheeven3]

All heroes have a maximum falloff range. Abrams is 46m whereas Vindicta is 64.

The increased maximum range makes it easier for shorter range heroes to take advantage of the Long Range passive, but also gives Long Range heroes potential to pick enemies off from impossible distances. The damage falloff makes that hard, but it does help.

Also, because the fall off range maximum is increased, that also makes it so that your damage reduction for range takes longer to scale up, increasing damage at all ranges, though by a harder to gauge value. (Basically, shooting someone at 50m doors more damage with this item because they are at a lower % of their maximum range, meaning lower damage penalty)

I think you misunderstood

You worded it as "increase maxinum range" and not "maximum fall off range"

It's true that all heroes have a max fall off distance, but only some have a max range.

I thought this weapon gave increased range not fall off range.

The correct wording you'd want to use is the same as on the item Sharpshooter (in the base stats)

 

[micbenso66]

I think you misunderstood

You worded it as "increase maxinum range" and not "maximum fall off range"

It's true that all heroes have a max fall off distance, but only some have a max range.

I thought this weapon gave increased range not fall off range.

The correct wording you'd want to use is the same as on the item Sharpshooter (in the base stats)

it seems like the intention is that this item adds 8m to the range before falloff begins. That might technically be the same thing though, im not entirely sure how the falloff in this game is set.

 

[Rosgath]

it seems like the intention is that this item adds 8m to the range before falloff begins. That might technically be the same thing though, im not entirely sure how the falloff in this game is set.

Actually, Steven had it right in that my original intention was to have it work like how Sharpshooter works.

But this idea, I think, is better. As far as I know, Falloff begins at the minimum range we can see on the guns in the Wiki (so for Abrams it starts to fall off at 20m) and scales up by a percentage of maximum range after that. If Mystic Sniper increases the minimum falloff range, you get maximum damage out to a further range (in the example case, 28m) which makes it more of a brawler type item, but still pretty effective at long range.

 

[steventheeven3]

Actually, Steven had it right in that my original intention was to have it work like how Sharpshooter works.

But this idea, I think, is better. As far as I know, Falloff begins at the minimum range we can see on the guns in the Wiki (so for Abrams it starts to fall off at 20m) and scales up by a percentage of maximum range after that. If Mystic Sniper increases the minimum falloff range, you get maximum damage out to a further range (in the example case, 28m) which makes it more of a brawler type item, but still pretty effective at long range.

I might be wrong but I think the extra fall-off range from Sharpshooter also affects the min range, it affects both min and max range basically.

 

[micbenso66]

Actually, Steven had it right in that my original intention was to have it work like how Sharpshooter works.

But this idea, I think, is better. As far as I know, Falloff begins at the minimum range we can see on the guns in the Wiki (so for Abrams it starts to fall off at 20m) and scales up by a percentage of maximum range after that. If Mystic Sniper increases the minimum falloff range, you get maximum damage out to a further range (in the example case, 28m) which makes it more of a brawler type item, but still pretty effective at long range.

depending on how it works, it would def make y choice path. Do i upgrade to sharpshooter for better fall off max distance or this item for better min distance for close-mid range fights.

Again, im not sure how fall off works to begin with so its hard to word this item properly to make that distinction.