[META] Mods - start cleaning up this forum. seriously.

I doubt very much that the devs read anything posted here anymore. I suspect they must have a separate secret forum for their cool kids only playtest club. Once I learned of its existence I vowed not to make one single additional bug report. Because either we are playtesters or we aren't, and Valve answered that question for me.
They add suggestions and fix bug fixes brought forth on these forums all the time. I think there was a time where they were more focused on that secret playtest but recently i notice a lot more that their changes are based on things posted here.
 
I doubt very much that the devs read anything posted here anymore. I suspect they must have a separate secret forum for their cool kids only playtest club. Once I learned of its existence I vowed not to make one single additional bug report. Because either we are playtesters or we aren't, and Valve answered that question for me.
1774474441701.png
 
Valve has developers reading through and forwarding appropriately interesting content to other relevant developers when they see it. They do this through multiple social media platforms, forums included.

If your content is good, it will be forwarded. The game is absolutely full of ideas and ability concepts that were brought forward by the community.
 
omg, fucking preach, i used to browse this place daily and now i do it like once every week because of how fucking dogshit this forum has become, ever since the new heroes dropped this place has been a shit show of people posting unrelated redesigns for existing heroes or just overall complaining about patches and that problem got worst when that streamer managed to convince a valve animator to change Lash's parry animation with like 4-5 parry animation ideas dropping daily
 
I used AI once to try to communicate what sort of direction I was heading out, not as a substitute on "Yeah, I want exactly this". And I had people ass blasting me for it. Literal animals.

To be honest, if they feel threatened about AI artwork, that means what they make is crap lol

Most of the artists who are skilled take constructive feedback and don't feel threatened by it. I mean, that is about aspiring, no?
thoroughly convinced you're here to just ragebait most of the time.

AI is an insult not to mention an environmental detriment. disliking something on the premise of it stealing other artists' work, destroying the environment and all around looking like dogshit doesn't mean someone is insecure about their art. it means they don't like AI.

the idea that you even think "skill" is anything to do with someone using their creativity to create their own heroes is proof in and of itself you care very little for people's creations and moreso about... i don't even know, trying to prove you're better some how? because you can make their ideas using AI garbage?

it's ironic you're all complaining about people using this section of the forums for trying to get feedback about existing hero ideas, when the people like you giving feedback for new hero ideas are assholes.
 
thoroughly convinced you're here to just ragebait most of the time.

AI is an insult not to mention an environmental detriment. disliking something on the premise of it stealing other artists' work, destroying the environment and all around looking like dogshit doesn't mean someone is insecure about their art. it means they don't like AI.

the idea that you even think "skill" is anything to do with someone using their creativity to create their own heroes is proof in and of itself you care very little for people's creations and moreso about... i don't even know, trying to prove you're better some how? because you can make their ideas using AI garbage?

it's ironic you're all complaining about people using this section of the forums for trying to get feedback about existing hero ideas, when the people like you giving feedback for new hero ideas are assholes.
I want to believe it's a ragebait account for my own personal mental confort because there's no way people will really go their way to speak like that about others. In the end AI dudebros are always the same, try to ignore these for the best.

Also
Most of the artists who are skilled take constructive feedback and don't feel threatened by it. I mean, that is about aspiring, no?
No, this just proves you haven't ever lifted a pencil.
To be honest, if they feel threatened about AI artwork, that means what they make is crap lol
What can you do? AI crap? Ragebaiting? Flooding the forum with useless stuff trying to fight people in a poor attempt of saying "Why are you making this a fight?*"? you're know for being annoying and rude, get a hobby.

*quoted from another post.
 
I want to believe it's a ragebait account for my own personal mental confort because there's no way people will really go their way to speak like that about others. In the end AI dudebros are always the same, try to ignore these for the best.

Also

No, this just proves you haven't ever lifted a pencil.

What can you do? AI crap? Ragebaiting? Flooding the forum with useless stuff trying to fight people in a poor attempt of saying "Why are you making this a fight?*"? you're know for being annoying and rude, get a hobby.

*quoted from another post.
oh i love you
 
thoroughly convinced you're here to just ragebait most of the time.

AI is an insult not to mention an environmental detriment. disliking something on the premise of it stealing other artists' work, destroying the environment and all around looking like dogshit doesn't mean someone is insecure about their art. it means they don't like AI.

the idea that you even think "skill" is anything to do with someone using their creativity to create their own heroes is proof in and of itself you care very little for people's creations and moreso about... i don't even know, trying to prove you're better some how? because you can make their ideas using AI garbage?

it's ironic you're all complaining about people using this section of the forums for trying to get feedback about existing hero ideas, when the people like you giving feedback for new hero ideas are assholes.
I don't like the AI art that I see here but I agree on what the guy said that it might be too much to go scorched earth on it. So while I may disagree with its use (it's really sad seeing the ads and art around my city go from real art to now almost all AI. Advertisements are crappy AI animated, banners are AI, and it all looks like crap. A number of people lost their jobs to *that*).

I agree with your own points that you brought up but expect them to mention how prompting is its own skill and getting good AI art is like getting a cat to follow instructions. The wheel of tech and how it will replace jobs. It is probably best to argue about AI art in a different thread and not this one as it's not exactly related on how the forum is a mess.
 
I don't like the AI art that I see here but I agree on what the guy said that it might be too much to go scorched earth on it. So while I may disagree with its use (it's really sad seeing the ads and art around my city go from real art to now almost all AI. Advertisements are crappy AI animated, banners are AI, and it all looks like crap. A number of people lost their jobs to *that*).

I agree with your own points that you brought up but expect them to mention how prompting is its own skill and getting good AI art is like getting a cat to follow instructions. The wheel of tech and how it will replace jobs. It is probably best to argue about AI art in a different thread and not this one as it's not exactly related on how the forum is a mess.
no. typing bullshit into an AI does not require skill in any sense of the word.

i think this is a good point to bring up here since one of the people actively debating about the forum being a "mess" actively makes it a mess by using AI "art" garbage to plague people's posts.
 
no. typing bullshit into an AI does not require skill in any sense of the word.

i think this is a good point to bring up here since one of the people actively debating about the forum being a "mess" actively makes it a mess by using AI "art" garbage to plague people's posts.

I said *expect them* to make the arguement. I get your point.

What I'm saying is that while it is a worthwhile discussion, it's on the lesser problems of the site.

We need a frontend overhaul.

We need clearly signposted sections that clearly explain what they do. Have a public section for feedback for current heroes.

We need a larger mod team to handle the work and their tools to handle reports made better.

Then let us decide then if AI will be allowed or not. I like to note the Discord bans AI artwork so there's already precedent for it. However, it could led to more workload for the mod team which if not expanded, slows them down.
 
I don't like the AI art that I see here but I agree on what the guy said that it might be too much to go scorched earth on it. So while I may disagree with its use (it's really sad seeing the ads and art around my city go from real art to now almost all AI. Advertisements are crappy AI animated, banners are AI, and it all looks like crap. A number of people lost their jobs to *that*).

I agree with your own points that you brought up but expect them to mention how prompting is its own skill and getting good AI art is like getting a cat to follow instructions. The wheel of tech and how it will replace jobs. It is probably best to argue about AI art in a different thread and not this one as it's not exactly related on how the forum is a mess.
AI is simply a tool, and like things in life, one must be careful using it as a substitition. It is NOT merely a replacement.

I study AI for my Masters. My personal view on it? It can be used for greatness/fun, provided you are ethical and cautious about it. Human learnt skill will always triumph AI - even if hypothetically AI could do better. Imagine where people stop walking, having weapons, or even critically thinking. We can't regress into becoming a weak species. Doing the very act itself is not wasted effort. I see too many cases people using AI in Academia to try to cut corners, and it does anger me too. Quite a bit of cases for cheating. For someone who wishes to be an academic, I do find that disgusting. That being said, I am not entirely against it. It's ultimately - how - it's used.

For AI art it's the same, but the ethics and the >need< for it does not warrant the anger. So I am way way softer towards it. Sloppy art does not have close to the negative impact to producing false and potentially harmful information in the face of science, technology and mathematics. If anything, that anger should be better shared towards fraud and academic misconduct (which is way more pressing and impactful). I have seen really good artists who make work so much better than AI.

Source?

From hearing from AI researchers and lecturers (in person, multiple of them, a strong silent consensus, the elephant of the room), there is more papers being produced regarding AI than the people reading it. That clearly points to using AI in a neglectful way. It explains why some of the papers I read just seem... mushy.

AI art is art, but it is a >different< kind of art. Anyone who makes it a competition (which includes employers) are being a fool. From a cultural and anthropological level. I will not be intimidated from not having this stance.

It's like you found a substitute for meat. That can cause small butchers and local farmers to go out of business, right? Sure, maybe the big guy gets profit, but the slop will start to hit you. Hard. Won't be long until it goes back into a feedback loop of degenerating content, until the demand of human artists shoot right back up. That and people can detect AI content, some cases even just by observation.

So yeah, I'm choosing to say it to you because I suspect certain people are harassing me (even bringing their buddies, claiming I have "bad reputation" (??)) because I used AI art one time to try to demonstrate a possible different direction a character concept could go. Again, this place is not an art gallery, this is a place for critique, discussion and suggestions towards Valve for inspiration. Nothing more, nothing less. Should I have to put up being told that I need to get life, and that what I'm doing is cancerous? People try to lecture about environmental concerns, not realising they live in glass houses! Please. And somehow I'm harming someone's mental health because I think differently? Pick up a pen? How about spend several years of your life trying to understanding AI, including Mathematics behind it? Till then, they can get their disrespect and shove it up their ass.

No. I won't even dignify them any further. They can rot in hell. I understand the topic far more than 90% of people. I heard some claims that transformer models were used to aimbot in Deadlock?

Literal bullshit. There are far too many hidden variables, and why go through the process, which is prone to hallucinations due to it's very design, when you could make an algorithmic/object detection approach that would be more effective in accuracy, ease, time taken to develop as well as resource allocation (Memory/Time). I literally did an undergraduate piece about AI's capability to make novel knowledge based material, and I concluded rightfully that using transformers won't cut it and that CoT technology had to be employed, as well as "neural components". This was 5 months before OpenAI deployed the very same ideas I predicted. I don't need to give the grade I got for that, as frankly what I say speaks volumes.

And I'm not going to tolerate disrespect and intimidation.

Criticise me for being wrong, at least I'm not being abusive when I convey an argument. I don't treat people unfairly, absolutely not when unprovoked. 95% of my interactions have been positive, engaging and giving ideas the time and thought.

Frankly, AI hysteria is stupid. They don't even fully understand why they are angry. Animals. I would be absolutely against a ban of AI in these forums. Perhaps segregating AI (and assisted) art displays vs human made work? That I would love for that, actually.
 
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AI is simply a tool, and like things in life, one must be careful using it as a substitition. It is NOT merely a replacement.

I study AI for my Masters. My personal view on it? It can be used for greatness/fun, provided you are ethical and cautious about it. Human learnt skill will always triumph AI - even if hypothetically AI could do better. Imagine where people stop walking, having weapons, or even critically thinking. We can't regress into becoming a weak species. Doing the very act itself is not wasted effort. I see too many cases people using AI in Academia to try to cut corners, and it does anger me too. Quite a bit of cases for cheating. For someone who wishes to be an academic, I do find that disgusting. That being said, I am not entirely against it. It's ultimately - how - it's used.

For AI art it's the same, but the ethics and the >need< for it does not warrant the anger. So I am way way softer towards it. Sloppy art does not have close to the negative impact to producing false and potentially harmful information in the face of art, technology and mathematics. If anything, that anger should be better shared towards fraud and academic misconduct (which is way more pressing and impactful). I have seen really good artists who make work so much better than AI.

Source?

From hearing from AI researchers and lecturers (in person, multiple of them, a strong silent consensus, the elephant of the room), there is more papers being produced regarding AI than the people reading it. That clearly points to using AI in a neglectful way. It explains why some of the papers I read just seem... mushy.

AI art is art, but it is a >different< kind of art. Anyone who makes it a competition (which includes employers) are being a fool. From a cultural and anthropological level. I will not be intimidated from not having this stance.

It's like you found a substitute for meat. That can cause small butchers and local farmers to go out of business, right? Sure, maybe the big guy gets profit, but the slop will start to hit you. Hard. Won't be long until it goes back into a feedback loop of degenerating content, until the demand of human artists shoot right back up. That and people can detect AI content, some cases even just by observation.

So yeah, I'm choosing to say it to you because I suspect certain people are harassing me (even bringing their buddies, claiming I have "bad reputation" (??)) because I used AI art one time to try to demonstrate a possible different direction a character concept could go. Again, this place is not an art gallery, this is a place for critique, discussion and suggestions towards Valve for inspiration. Nothing more, nothing less. Should I have to put up being told that I need to get life, and that what I'm doing is cancerous? People try to lecture about environmental concerns, not realising they live in glass houses! Please. And somehow I'm harming someone's mental health because I think differently? Pick up a pen? How about spend several years of your life trying to understanding AI, including Mathematics behind it? Till then, they can get their disrespect and shove it up their ass.

No. I won't even dignify them any further. They can rot in hell. I understand the topic far more than 90% of people. I heard some claims that transformer models were used to aimbot in Deadlock?

Literal bullshit. There are far too many hidden variables, and why go through the process, which is prone to hallucinations due to it's very design, when you could make an algorithmic/object detection approach that would be more effective in accuracy, ease, time taken to develop as well as resource allocation (Memory/Time). I literally did an undergraduate piece about AI's capability to make novel knowledge based material, and I concluded rightfully that using transformers won't cut it and that CoT technology had to be employed, as well as "neural components". This was 5 months before OpenAI deployed the very same ideas I predicted. I don't need to give the grade I got for that, as frankly what I say speaks volumes.

And I'm not going to tolerate disrespect and intimidation.

Criticise me for being wrong, at least I'm not being abusive when I convey an argument. I don't treat people unfairly, absolutely not when unprovoked. 95% of my interactions have been positive, engaging and giving ideas the time and thought.

Frankly, AI hysteria is stupid. They don't even fully understand why they are angry. Animals. I would be absolutely against a ban of AI in these forums. Perhaps segregating AI (and assisted) art displays vs human made work? That I would love for that, actually.
nah ur not "abusive" when ur getting ur argument across. ur just nuts.
 
Yup. I said it's best not to argue about this in this thread as we should focus on what the forum needs more than the AI debate. Solve big issues now, deal with small issues later. It's the internet but let's cool it with insulting each other in this thread, and just stay focused on the topic.

On the actual focus of the thread, I think in the future it would be good to have Forum Feedback in the Other section of the forums (same new system of private and public) so that we won't need to create meta posts here. We can run into the issue where they might fix some issues but the forum falls to the wayside again.
 
Yup. I said it's best not to argue about this in this thread as we should focus on what the forum needs more than the AI debate. Solve big issues now, deal with small issues later. It's the internet but let's cool it with insulting each other in this thread, and just stay focused on the topic.

On the actual focus of the thread, I think in the future it would be good to have Forum Feedback in the Other section of the forums (same new system of private and public) so that we won't need to create meta posts here. We can run into the issue where they might fix some issues but the forum falls to the wayside again.
The forum itself uses a pretty outdated layout, not that this is something inherently bad -i love old web designs- but there are a lot of "dead" space and things that can dissapear and it wouldn't make much difference.

For example, you can see the layout is old as it still names Skype on your profile configs:
1774591645340.png

I believe this whole category could be revamped totally so it doesn't show every single embed people posts or deleted, I really doubt people go everyday into it and say "man, i really wanna see some hideout screenshot"
1774591717250.png

This is also something I'd consider deleting
1774592498749.png
And I'd move the already existing heros feedback to a more visible place, you have to scroll to get to it and I can see why people tends to post their inquires in the creative forum instead, if you come here with and idea what'd you do? 1. open the forum thread with "hero ideas" in the name 2. scroll all the way down to find, inside all the private threads, the one dedicated to your specific demand?

yeah

For a new css I'd love the forum to have a theme more close to what deadlock actually is, I'm gonna use an example for one of the forums I used to live on back in the day as an example of branding your web towards its users:
1774592004013.png
The deadlock forums use XenForo, but I believe ForumFree or ForoActivo might be a better hosting options and it's somehwat easier to use and customize, you could get a full deadlock themed forum in no time:
1774592266644.png1774592324223.png1774592380280.png1774592718138.png
In a side note, I'd love to be able to design the forum UI, need to make that degree shine lol
 

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The forum itself uses a pretty outdated layout, not that this is something inherently bad -i love old web designs- but there are a lot of "dead" space and things that can dissapear and it wouldn't make much difference.

For example, you can see the layout is old as it still names Skype on your profile configs:
View attachment 95830

I believe this whole category could be revamped totally so it doesn't show every single embed people posts or deleted, I really doubt people go everyday into it and say "man, i really wanna see some hideout screenshot"
View attachment 95834

This is also something I'd consider deleting
View attachment 95839
And I'd move the already existing heros feedback to a more visible place, you have to scroll to get to it and I can see why people tends to post their inquires in the creative forum instead, if you come here with and idea what'd you do? 1. open the forum thread with "hero ideas" in the name 2. scroll all the way down to find, inside all the private threads, the one dedicated to your specific demand?

yeah

For a new css I'd love the forum to have a theme more close to what deadlock actually is, I'm gonna use an example for one of the forums I used to live on back in the day as an example of branding your web towards its users:
View attachment 95835
The deadlock forums use XenForo, but I believe ForumFree or ForoActivo might be a better hosting options and it's somehwat easier to use and customize, you could get a full deadlock themed forum in no time:
View attachment 95836View attachment 95837View attachment 95838View attachment 95840
In a side note, I'd love to be able to design the forum UI, need to make that degree shine lol
I agree a lot! I actually sent a concept privately to the devs on what style I wish the site used more. I would change the layout but I operate on that there's two ways of criticism.

How much better can you make it while doing the least amount of changes, and what if you did it from the ground up.

So this is just going "Hey, you can make the site look nicer without changing much." I would also redo the layout.
1774595147555.png
I also think for hero feedback, you can use a format that the wiki uses where you just have the character icons. It would be more approachable than the list of empty coffins.
ForumHeroFeedbackExample.png
I do a lot of front-end so I like that aspect. Would be cool for the community such as you, I, and more work together to make the forum a visually nicer place.
 
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