Martial Artistry

[ibbitz]

⚠ NUMBERS AND EFFECTS ARE NOT FINAL - DO NOT TAKE THEM TOO SERIOUSLY.​

As with every post in this forum, the point is to explore a concept & discuss what would make it work well. This first post is just the initial idea. If you think something needs to change, then please offer your reasoning/constructive feedback

Martial Artistry​

Inspiration​

This mechanic is based on Gigantic's melee system - which adds a substantial amount of depth to melee combat.

• Jump Attacks extend airtime, allowing for more mobility options. They also slow, which helps chase down kills.
• Dodge Attacks sacrifice stamina but reward successful dodges with more powerful attacks.

While this might not work 1:1 in Deadlock, I'd love to have more skill expression and versatility to melee combat so that it can be more interesting to play melee heroes.

Relation to Rebuttal​

The goal with making this upgrade from Rebuttal is to address some core limitations of melee combat:

1. Rebuttal sees limited use, and is often not kept into late-game.
2. Even the most melee-heavy heroes still need to mix in gunplay.
3. There's not many items that augment melee playstyles.

By having an item family focused on melee interactions, it would let players specialize even more into melee. Getting more melee-centric movement options, crowd control tools, and mixups makes it easier to avoid parries. It also gives melee some more push and pull.
Ideally, the hope is that this will give certain heroes a reason to hold onto Rebuttal beyond a basic laning counter. It isn't necessarily meant to maximize DPS, but rather, to make melee a more viable playstyle.

Ways to Balance​

• Increasing/decreasing the cooldown on the Jump Attack slow.
• Increasing/decreasing the strength of the Jump Attack slow.
• Splitting Jump Attack and Dash Attack into separate items.
• Reduce mobility of Jump Attack & Dash Attack.
• Increase cost of item to T4 (6400 souls).

 

[Rosgath]

I posted a couple of item ideas for Dash related attacks a few weeks or so ago and this seems to be much in the same line. Link here

I will say that the Jump attack might present a pretty big issue. There's a lot of movement tech that relies on being able to use the Air stall/forward moment effects from Heavy Melee in the air. Depends on how it worked

Also, Rebuttal is designed as a way to counter melee builds. Having Rebuttal be included in what looks like it would be a big pro melee item runs counter to it's design. This would be better off as an upgrade to Melee Charge.

 

[ibbitz]

Those are cool concepts! Glad I haven't been the only one considering this.

I will say that the Jump attack might present a pretty big issue. There's a lot of movement tech that relies on being able to use the Air stall/forward moment effects from Heavy Melee in the air. Depends on how it worked

Yeah, this was something I considered. In Gigantic, jump attacks serve as a mobility tool to extend airtime or get onto ledges which are normally outside your normal jump range. I imagine for Deadlock, we'd still want it to have some degree of mobility.

Personally I think it'd be best if Jump Attacks behaved differently from regular midair Heavy Melees. While a big part of movement, it always felt odd how a normal Heavy Melee overrides your air momentum.For example, a user could sacrifice some of the vertical/climbing utility of normal Heavy Melees for more horizontal movement.

If it's really a deal breaker, perhaps there could be a button combo to perform the classic Heavy Melee instead of a Jump Attack when Martial Artistry is equipped.

Also, Rebuttal is designed as a way to counter melee builds. Having Rebuttal be included in what looks like it would be a big pro melee item runs counter to it's design.

You're not wrong. My intent with having it upgrade from Rebuttal was:

• Melee heroes are typically in close range and trade melee hits with the enemy.
• Jump/Dash Attacks would probably have movement implications, which belong in Vitality.
• I didn't necessarily want Jump/Dash attacks to be stronger, but instead to give more utility.

To me, it made sense from a "this item family makes someone the most versatile melee fighter". Good defense, offense, & utility, but not necessarily prioritizing damage. I think adding damage on top of something like the Jump Attack slow might just make the item a little too oppressive for a T3.

I think this item would feel the best when it enables you to use melee to outplay your opponent, rather than just being a tool to burst someone down.