Let's Fix Flog

[Horse Plinko]

Does Flog need "fixing"? Maybe that's hyperbole to grab eyes... but I'm not satisfied with it. It's not that it's broken, or useless. But it it doesn't add anything new to the combo that his kit is built around. It has such a similar hitbox to Ground Strike that it can feel entirely redundant. Get height, Ground Strike, then immediately Flog every time, to hit whatever Ground Strike hit. It often feels like you could bind 1 & 3 to one key and play the same in fights. It even has a slow effect that's overshadowed by Ground Strike's slow. Why do they both have that? His other abilities are some of the most fun and interactive in the game, but Flog is just, there.

Obviously, Flog is more usable on the ground, and gives Lash both poke and sustain. This is critical utility since Ground Strike comes with conditionality. But it really feels like it's there to fill the space left between his other abilities, and I think we could change it in a way that helps it stand out on its own and work with the rest of his kit.

My low-rank, amateur proposal (be gentle):

Flog is much thinner - you know, like a rope or a whip - but has either more range or more damage to compensate. Or, the following upgrades compensate.

• This adds some more skill to hit it, rather than just hitting stuff vaguely in front of Lash. It's now harder to hit from farther away, making longer range less oppressive.
• This makes him more single-target (although it could still hit multiple targets in a line), but I think having a big AoE ability and a more targeted one could open up different build paths? Teamfight 1-first Lash vs. Solo Kills 3-first Lash?
• The balance update that just came out kind of started to move in this direction by taking away the angle scaling. But let's go further with it!

T1: instead of a redundant slow, the T1 upgrade adds spirit resist reduction.

• One interesting use-case for Flog that's been offered to me is to break Spellbreaker while in the air before the slam. To lean into this sort of play, Flog could be used to amp the damage of Ground Strike through spirit resist shred, if Lash can execute a more difficult play.
• This would affect his early game value when laning with a spirit hero; I don't know if that's cool, or problematic, or what.

T2: adds increased damage at the tip of Flog's range.

• You know, like how a whip cracks? This gives Flog its own skill expression, and leans further into using it in the air (especially with the air control he just got from T3 Grapple!). Or just makes it potent to finish off fleeing enemies.
• If the concern is that it'd give him too much long-range poke, it could give damage amp or increased spirit shred instead, which wouldn't help Lash unless he commits afterwards.
• I don't know if/how you'd have to change his existing T2 bonuses or the existing T3 damage boost, sorry. But I really think this would make Flog into a unique, play-making, pick-getting ability worthy of Lash's ego aura. This could hypothetically be T3 instead, but...

T3: if the narrow hitbox makes him way worse in teamfights, like unacceptably bad, then the T3 upgrade could dramatically widen the width of Flog.

• In my mind it's still a long rectangle, just maybe 5m wide instead of 1m. This would make it function a lot more like it currently does, but still with a different hitbox to Ground Strike. Again, the recent update has added a similar angle increase to T3 already, so I feel like this whole idea isn't such a drastic change as it would have been a few days ago.

In conclusion, these changes would make Flog a much more unique ability that plays in a way Ground Strike doesn't, while maintaining the utility that it needs to give. It could possibly create different playstyles for Lash to build into. And it feels like whapping someone with a rope! What do you think, does this sound fun, or is this a terrible idea?

 

[ReportingBugs]

Does Flog need "fixing"? Maybe that's hyperbole to grab eyes... but I'm not satisfied with it. It's not that it's broken, or useless. But it it doesn't add anything new to the combo that his kit is built around. It has such a similar hitbox to Ground Strike that it can feel entirely redundant. Get height, Ground Strike, then immediately Flog every time, to hit whatever Ground Strike hit. It often feels like you could bind 1 & 3 to one key and play the same in fights. It even has a slow effect that's overshadowed by Ground Strike's slow. Why do they both have that? His other abilities are some of the most fun and interactive in the game, but Flog is just, there.

Obviously, Flog is more usable on the ground, and gives Lash both poke and sustain. This is critical utility since Ground Strike comes with conditionality. But it really feels like it's there to fill the space left between his other abilities, and I think we could change it in a way that helps it stand out on its own and work with the rest of his kit.

My low-rank, amateur proposal (be gentle):

Flog is much thinner - you know, like a rope or a whip - but has either more range or more damage to compensate. Or, the following upgrades compensate.

• This adds some more skill to hit it, rather than just hitting stuff vaguely in front of Lash. It's now harder to hit from farther away, making longer range less oppressive.
• This makes him more single-target (although it could still hit multiple targets in a line), but I think having a big AoE ability and a more targeted one could open up different build paths? Teamfight 1-first Lash vs. Solo Kills 3-first Lash?
• The balance update that just came out kind of started to move in this direction by taking away the angle scaling. But let's go further with it!

T1: instead of a redundant slow, the T1 upgrade adds spirit resist reduction.

• One interesting use-case for Flog that's been offered to me is to break Spellbreaker while in the air before the slam. To lean into this sort of play, Flog could be used to amp the damage of Ground Strike through spirit resist shred, if Lash can execute a more difficult play.
• This would affect his early game value when laning with a spirit hero; I don't know if that's cool, or problematic, or what.

T2: adds increased damage at the tip of Flog's range.

• You know, like how a whip cracks? This gives Flog its own skill expression, and leans further into using it in the air (especially with the air control he just got from T3 Grapple!). Or just makes it potent to finish off fleeing enemies.
• If the concern is that it'd give him too much long-range poke, it could give damage amp or increased spirit shred instead, which wouldn't help Lash unless he commits afterwards.
• I don't know if/how you'd have to change his existing T2 bonuses or the existing T3 damage boost, sorry. But I really think this would make Flog into a unique, play-making, pick-getting ability worthy of Lash's ego aura. This could hypothetically be T3 instead, but...

T3: if the narrow hitbox makes him way worse in teamfights, like unacceptably bad, then the T3 upgrade could dramatically widen the width of Flog.

• In my mind it's still a long rectangle, just maybe 5m wide instead of 1m. This would make it function a lot more like it currently does, but still with a different hitbox to Ground Strike. Again, the recent update has added a similar angle increase to T3 already, so I feel like this whole idea isn't such a drastic change as it would have been a few days ago.

In conclusion, these changes would make Flog a much more unique ability that plays in a way Ground Strike doesn't, while maintaining the utility that it needs to give. It could possibly create different playstyles for Lash to build into. And it feels like whapping someone with a rope! What do you think, does this sound fun, or is this a terrible idea?

Post this privately - it is subject to community bias. Some threads are private for that reason.