[Hero] a deck builder rogue like character, "Joker"

[nathanieljbrill]

This character is FAR from complete. This is the character with four abilities and one gun. Realistically to be complete he will need about 7 guns and 37 abilities total. I will work on those and add them as time goes on.

 

[micbenso66]

I only got to the first skill and thought "if this character doesnt just pull out guns from random pockets that have rediculous joker like animations like a boxing glove shooting out of one for the melee damage, I will sue! EVRYEONE FOR FALS AVERTISMENTS!"

 

[nathanieljbrill]

I only got to the first skill and thought "if this character doesnt just pull out guns from random pockets that have rediculous joker like animations like a boxing glove shooting out of one for the melee damage, I will sue! EVRYEONE FOR FALS AVERTISMENTS!"

Oh he definitely should! Do you like the rogue like deck builder plan?

 

[micbenso66]

Oh he definitely should! Do you like the rogue like deck builder plan?

overall yes, but im not real keen on the draw a card ability. Its very convoluted and confusing, also seems time consuming as well. Making it more of a detriment to the overall kit. Also, seems like the only thing you should care to draw is the ultimate card to get those buffs for the ultimate because the ultimate sounds awesome stealing buffs and returning debuffs.

LoL has a similar "idea" character that uses cards gambit style and his pick a card aility when activated rotates through 3 different options but is otherwise always available. now, i wouldnt copy this idea but maybe the ability has either an activatable effect that you use as normal. Like what ever card you currently have unlocked from the passive portion you can throw it and depending on if its the gun, vitality, or spirit card it will do something different.

There are other examples of this but they arnt card based. Morgana le fay in smite has an abilitiy that when you activated it all of your abilities become a different version of that one ability with different effects. So you press 3, then 1-3 become copies of her 3 but if you press 1 it fears, press 2 it slows, and press 3 it has bonus damage if you hit it right. this is similar to the lol card guys ability. 1 card stuns, 1 card does an aoe slow and one does a single target nuke and returns mana.

Im sure you can find other examples to build this abilitiy off of but right now it just seems overly complicated and Im not quite sure the time. (maybe switch it with his ult, he has no actual ult, and the cards buff up the rest of his kit?)

 

[nathanieljbrill]

overall yes, but im not real keen on the draw a card ability. Its very convoluted and confusing, also seems time consuming as well. Making it more of a detriment to the overall kit. Also, seems like the only thing you should care to draw is the ultimate card to get those buffs for the ultimate because the ultimate sounds awesome stealing buffs and returning debuffs.

LoL has a similar "idea" character that uses cards gambit style and his pick a card aility when activated rotates through 3 different options but is otherwise always available. now, i wouldnt copy this idea but maybe the ability has either an activatable effect that you use as normal. Like what ever card you currently have unlocked from the passive portion you can throw it and depending on if its the gun, vitality, or spirit card it will do something different.

There are other examples of this but they arnt card based. Morgana le fay in smite has an abilitiy that when you activated it all of your abilities become a different version of that one ability with different effects. So you press 3, then 1-3 become copies of her 3 but if you press 1 it fears, press 2 it slows, and press 3 it has bonus damage if you hit it right. this is similar to the lol card guys ability. 1 card stuns, 1 card does an aoe slow and one does a single target nuke and returns mana.

Im sure you can find other examples to build this abilitiy off of but right now it just seems overly complicated and Im not quite sure the time. (maybe switch it with his ult, he has no actual ult, and the cards buff up the rest of his kit?)

I think there's been a misunderstanding (totally understandable because I haven't posted any example cards yet). When you pick another ability card an use an ability (lets say the ulitmate) then that next ability in your deck (the one you've chosen in this case) is drawn and put in the ultimate slot. Then if you use your 1. ability then Twisty Fate will be drawn into the 1 slot. You definitely want to add cards to your deck because that's how you're going to get more powerful and tailor your deck to have synergy and more abilities.

I think if you've played a rougelike deckbuilder like slay the spire before it'll actually be kind of easy to figure out but he will definitely be a complicated hero who is different every time you play him. Which is the goal and sounds super fun to me.

I have reworked all his aiblities already in the version I am editing. The issue is if you grab a new ability how do you put AP into it? I was considering that you upgrade slots instead but that made it so there was no difference between upgrading the one and two slots.

What I've decided on is that ability cards won't have AP upgrades and it will be the slots but each slot will be tailored to kinds of cards. So You upgrade your 2 which has specific buffs to any mobility based card you have in your deck. Or you upgrade your 1 for damage focused cards. Or you upgrade your ultimate for status effect based cards.

 

[micbenso66]

I think there's been a misunderstanding (totally understandable because I haven't posted any example cards yet). When you pick another ability card an use an ability (lets say the ulitmate) then that next ability in your deck (the one you've chosen in this case) is drawn and put in the ultimate slot. Then if you use your 1. ability then Twisty Fate will be drawn into the 1 slot. You definitely want to add cards to your deck because that's how you're going to get more powerful and tailor your deck to have synergy and more abilities.

I think if you've played a rougelike deckbuilder like slay the spire before it'll actually be kind of easy to figure out but he will definitely be a complicated hero who is different every time you play him. Which is the goal and sounds super fun to me.

I have reworked all his aiblities already in the version I am editing. The issue is if you grab a new ability how do you put AP into it? I was considering that you upgrade slots instead but that made it so there was no difference between upgrading the one and two slots.

What I've decided on is that ability cards won't have AP upgrades and it will be the slots but each slot will be tailored to kinds of cards. So You upgrade your 2 which has specific buffs to any mobility based card you have in your deck. Or you upgrade your 1 for damage focused cards. Or you upgrade your ultimate for status effect based cards.

ok, i sort of understand. This makes part of what i said before seem more true. So 1st, ide make this is ultimate. The whole point is that your ultimate gives you a ton of power. But this one does it slowly over the game by allowing you to build your deck which then empowers the rest of your kit.

I really like the gun ability a lot and what is currently his ult. Those are really fun. Not so much the backflip one but meh. Its whatever. Those are all base level abilities like anyone else have and probably start very weak.

yoru deck builder mechanic continues to work how it does but the cards are all for upgrading your own kit with different effects. Common cards would be basic stats like cdr. Uncommon cards mid add a passive along with a stronger stat, cdr and reload (just throwing crap out here). rare cards basically change how the ability works and provides significant stats and and powerful passive (cdr, duration, and flippity now effects every player in a 30m range).

You would also have different card types based on slots as you said, so the above example my be a spirit card, but maybe there is a rare vit kard for flippity that changes the dot damage to health steal like siphon bullets. Or a gun card that increases damage to any target effected by flippity.

You would then either not have Tier upgrades for each ability as this replaces them, or, they are fairly mediocre to begin with. By end of game, max level and full slots, you are very powerful. the counter too you is basically stopping you from getting souls at all cost because you are a walking time bomb that will take over the game.

 

[JesseJaGoat]

is the jonkler stupid?

 

[nathanieljbrill]

ok, i sort of understand. This makes part of what i said before seem more true. So 1st, ide make this is ultimate. The whole point is that your ultimate gives you a ton of power. But this one does it slowly over the game by allowing you to build your deck which then empowers the rest of your kit.

I really like the gun ability a lot and what is currently his ult. Those are really fun. Not so much the backflip one but meh. Its whatever. Those are all base level abilities like anyone else have and probably start very weak.

yoru deck builder mechanic continues to work how it does but the cards are all for upgrading your own kit with different effects. Common cards would be basic stats like cdr. Uncommon cards mid add a passive along with a stronger stat, cdr and reload (just throwing crap out here). rare cards basically change how the ability works and provides significant stats and and powerful passive (cdr, duration, and flippity now effects every player in a 30m range).

You would also have different card types based on slots as you said, so the above example my be a spirit card, but maybe there is a rare vit kard for flippity that changes the dot damage to health steal like siphon bullets. Or a gun card that increases damage to any target effected by flippity.

You would then either not have Tier upgrades for each ability as this replaces them, or, they are fairly mediocre to begin with. By end of game, max level and full slots, you are very powerful. the counter too you is basically stopping you from getting souls at all cost because you are a walking time bomb that will take over the game.

I think you're right in that the passive should be he ultimate. The issue there is that players will already have put items into their slots by the time the ultimate is unlocked, so it'll have to give them card picks for retroactive item slot filling. Not a big problem, it's probably better that way.

 

[micbenso66]

I think you're right in that the passive should be he ultimate. The issue there is that players will already have put items into their slots by the time the ultimate is unlocked, so it'll have to give them card picks for retroactive item slot filling. Not a big problem, it's probably better that way.

yea, i dont see that as a problem at all really. And, when it comes to design in general, knowing that you will get x number of cards because you got x number of slots filled and what type serves as a dopamine releaser which is what we look for when we decide what characters we like. So in that aspect, it makes perfect sense to work that way.

 

[Rosgath]

I haven't read through the hero concept yet, but the title of this thread makes me think you've been playing too much Balatro

 

[nathanieljbrill]

I haven't read through the hero concept yet, but the title of this thread makes me think you've been playing too much Balatro

Slay the Spire actually. But I see how a Joker would make you say Balatro.

Here's a reworked version of the first ability along with 6 first draft pickable cards. 15s cooldown is standard for the common cards, 23s for the uncommon, and 31 for the rare. I already know I want to rebrand the Orbs as Gremlins, so Taser Gremlin, Shield Gremlin, and Bomb Gremlin.
So as seen above the ability slot is upgraded independently of the ability, and the ability cards will be drawn and switch out with the top half, leaving the bottom with the ability points where it's at.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

There isn't a system anyone's made so far for making gun images so let me just put the text here. 4 common guns, 3 uncommon, and 2 rare.

Starter:

Bang Bang Senior
6 damage, 9 bullets per second, velocity 500
Ammo 27
Reload time 2.5s
54 DPS

Common:

Pluggy Buddy
25 damage, 3 shots per second, velocity 600
Ammo 3
Reload time 1s
75DPS

Ms Machine gun
4 damage, 14 shots per second, velocity 500
Ammo 84
Slight weapon spread
Reload time 2s
56 DPS

El Shooty
3 damage, 14 bullets per shot, 1.65 shots per second
Velocity 350
Ammo 8
Reload 3s
69.3 DPS

Ping-Brrrr
7.5 damage, 4 bullets per second.
Velocity 500
Ammo 16
Reload 2s
When you land a shot on an enemy hero gain +150% firerate and shoot without the ability to stop until the clip is emptied.
30-75 DPS

Uncommon:

The Big Shaboom
38 damage, 1.5 shots per second, velocity 300
Ammo 6, reload time 3s
Explosion radius 3m. Rocket jump capacity.
57 DPS
Rocket launcher.

Ka-Pow the Armageddon Bringer
Deals light melee damage. 1.4 shots per second
Velocity 200
Range 20m
Ammo 7
Imagine a boxing glove on a spring.

Heavy Heaver
15.5 damage, 4 shots per second
Velocity 400
Ammo 20
Reload time 3s
Gives a 3m/s impulse backwards while firing.
62DPS
Heavy heaver can be used to fly, it's an any direction backwards mobility.

Rare:

Bang Bang Junior
A secondary pistol is paired with Bang Bang Senior. Your initial gun now shoots 12 shots per second and has 48 ammo.
72 DPS

Blaster Pastor
8 damage * scales +0.192 with spirit
6 shots per second
Velocity 1000
Ammo 18
Reload time 3s
Deals spirit damage.
48 base, 86.4 at 200 spirit.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

I see that I will have to rework the shield orb/ Gremlin too. That's fine. I've rebranded them all to gremlins already. Here are the "Quick" items. The keyword "Quick" will mean that only +2 seconds is added to their cooldown when they are drawn instead of +10s. And they are upgraded with the 2 Slot.