Gust Scroll

[ibbitz]

Gust Scroll

• Description: Push all nearby enemies away from you.
• Cost: $1600
• Stats:
  • 10% Melee Resist
  • +100 Bonus Health
• Details:
  • Ability Range: 5m
  • Push Velocity: 5m/s
  • Cooldown: 30s

Honestly, I just wish there was an item to get close range characters off of me when I'm playing a squishy/non-mobile hero. Ideally, it should not be frequently usable, should have a very small range, and should not really be a late-game item. Rather, it's an item focused on early-mid game survivability against heroes like Drfiter, Abrahms, & Billy. The hope is that it could save you from a potentially fatal melee/close-range skill, but just once. It would also be funny to push people off a building with it.

All numbers are up for discussion, I don't really care too much about the values, so long as the intended effect is there. Range should be greater than the range of a heavy melee, but not by much.

 

[gibnewitems]

CC peel? For this cheap? Absolutely not!

That's part of the weakness for squishy heroes. They have to be incredibly easy to dive and shut down, otherwise we get the grey talon/vindicta meta from earlier last year where nobody has any fun.

Fighting against heroes that outrange you already sucks. It would suck even worse if they could by a 1600 item that provides them self peel on a single button press.

 

[daavimachaado]

this item is terrible

 

[ibbitz]

this item is terrible

This comment is terrible.

CC peel? For this cheap?

I will point you back at the part where I say "All numbers are up for discussion, I don't really care too much about the values".
That includes price and cooldown and strength of the push.

That's part of the weakness for squishy heroes. They have to be incredibly easy to dive and shut down, otherwise we get the grey talon/vindicta meta from earlier last year where nobody has any fun.

If Valve believed that, they wouldn't give Talon 4 stamina + flight + trap. Or give cart + door to Doorman. Or 2 teleports on Mina. I feel like the only squishy this applies to is Paige. But basically most squishies have easy ways to get out for free at the start of the game and on shorter cooldowns.

From my perspective a one-time push isn't that strong.

• It's almost inconsequential for a Lash, a Billy, an Abrams, etc. because they already have gap-closers.
• It could be countered by any number of items - Slowing Hex/Bullets, or Knockdown, or Unstoppable, or Phantom Strike.
• You can counter it by just having more stamina/move speed than the person using it.
• The stats this item would give would not be worth the slot toward min-late game.
• But if it still feels strong, you could even make it reduce your health/move speed if you really need to give people reasons to sell it.
• This doesn't really affect how mid-range heroes fight the person with Gust Scroll because they wont get in range.

 

[daavimachaado]

i mean the item is terrible bro no one is buying this

 

[ibbitz]

i mean the item is terrible bro no one is buying this

You're going to have to explain using more words than "terrible" if you want to make your point.

 

[daavimachaado]

ur spending 1600 souls to push someone away 5 meters away from you on 30 seconds cooldown :/

 

[ibbitz]

Thanks.
I think this is actually kind of funny because now we have two opposite opinions:

• This CC is too powerful to be a 1600 item.
• 1600 souls is too much for this dogshit item.

So perhaps 1600 is the perfect price lol. What do you think would make this item worth buying?

 

[Rosgath]

There are 2 primary problems I see with the item:

1.) Items that are useful for creating distance already exist (Warp Stone, Fleetfoot, etc.) and are basically staples of the top end scene. This item, due to it's low cost, is relatively ineffective at creating distance. Basically, because it's T2 it is too weak.

2.) The item is too cheap to provide active, immediate, displacement. Fleetfoot is the closest item of similar cost and it proves slow resist and bonus movespeed, but doesn't actually move anyone. Certain effects just don't exist on a given cost of an item because making the effective cost appropriate necessitates low power. Basically, immediate displacement should not be on a T2 item.

My answer to this thread? Just buy Warp Stone.

 

[AleksiyFlek$$iy]

This is quite interesting topic.

About item itself: In my opinion, it is useless in most cases. 5 meters is not that significant distance. It is unlikely that item would even shine in situations, where that distance become significant (huge slow, no stamina and etc.), cause if you're able to create such a problem for opponent, the best thing you can do is just escape.

About people's opinions.

That's part of the weakness for squishy heroes. They have to be incredibly easy to dive and shut down, otherwise we get the grey talon/vindicta meta from earlier last year where nobody has any fun.

The post's author have noticed correctly, that in that case, no one would have abilities, that they have now. Many of heroes have ability(ies), that let you to escape or limit enemy's movement. Besides, even if they don't have them anymore, the items are still available.

Fighting against heroes that outrange you already sucks. It would suck even worse if they could by a 1600 item that provides them self peel on a single button press.

I don't think, that these 5 meters is outrange. I can understand, that the ease of potential displacement may be unfair, but if it happened, would it actually make any sense? Maybe I just don't understand something. If you can, please provide some examples of situations that could arise with this item.

1.) Items that are useful for creating distance already exist (Warp Stone, Fleetfoot, etc.) and are basically staples of the top end scene. This item, due to it's low cost, is relatively ineffective at creating distance. Basically, because it's T2 it is too weak.

2.) The item is too cheap to provide active, immediate, displacement. Fleetfoot is the closest item of similar cost and it proves slow resist and bonus movespeed, but doesn't actually move anyone. Certain effects just don't exist on a given cost of an item because making the effective cost appropriate necessitates low power. Basically, immediate displacement should not be on a T2 item.

It's more like the one same problem, but I think you're totally right. Potential effectiveness of the item depends of its price. But personally, I don't see displacement as a high tier effect. We have a decent amount of displacement abilities with low cooldown, so maybe we could get also an item? Not an ultimate anti-cc solution, something highly specialized/conditional.

 

[ibbitz]

Really appreciate the nuanced takes.

About item itself: In my opinion, it is useless in most cases. 5 meters is not that significant distance. It is unlikely that item would even shine in situations, where that distance become significant (huge slow, no stamina and etc.), cause if you're able to create such a problem for opponent, the best thing you can do is just escape.

The item is too cheap to provide active, immediate, displacement. Fleetfoot is the closest item of similar cost and it proves slow resist and bonus movespeed, but doesn't actually move anyone. Certain effects just don't exist on a given cost of an item because making the effective cost appropriate necessitates low power. Basically, immediate displacement should not be on a T2 item.

I think that's fair. From my perspective there's two trains of thought for how this could be implemented.

• It should feel somewhat insignificant - It's an item meant for early game survival, and you're creating distance/displacement for a relatively low cost. There should be some tradeoff if it costs that little.
• It should be stronger and more expensive - It could be a more significant push, but balanced by a higher cost, a higher cooldown, or a different type of AoE (like a cone in front of you, so that it's less useful when surrounded).

I'd certainly want it to feel more situational or require more skill to use correctly. If a whole team can buy a strong peel, then teamfights might stall. That said, I think there might be places it could shine. I could see it being useful if someone is chasing you along the rooftops, or if you catch someone wasting their last bit of stamina to close a gap. It may also work as a weaker Vortex Web - with good positioning, you could push someone into a Haze/Dynamo/Lash ult.

Items that are useful for creating distance already exist (Warp Stone, Fleetfoot, etc.) and are basically staples of the top end scene. This item, due to it's low cost, is relatively ineffective at creating distance.
...
My answer to this thread? Just buy Warp Stone.

I think that's a good point. Items that displace probably need to be unique enough to warrant being bought. I think the main tradeoff is that Warp Stone displaces your hero, Gust Scroll displaces other heroes. This makes Warp Stone a good escape/mobility tool, but doesn't impact team fights significantly. Gust Scroll would provide less mobility, but potentially help peel or create space in crowds. As it stands, most distance-creating items focus on building mobility (Fleetfoot, Heroic Aura, Majestic Leap, Magic Carpet, etc.). This item could provide an effect that currently does not exist in any other item. The closest thing in my eyes is Cold Front, since it creates distance by slowing in a small AoE, but often that item is used to aggress instead of escape; something on the defensive side could provide some more nuanced itemization.