Grey talon full rework (basic concept not finished)

woodenjoyer

New member

Basic Attack:​

Grey Talon has the slowest but hardest-hitting basic attacks in the game. He shoots arrows with explosive tips that stick to any object in the game. These arrows explode after 3 seconds, dealing small AOE (area of effect) damage.

Considerations: This ability might be difficult to balance, as Grey Talon still needs to secure orbs.

Additional Idea: Allow players to manually explode the arrows before the 3-second timer by pressing the right mouse button.


Hunter's Gaze:​

Grey Talon focuses on his target, marking it, slowing it, and gaining true vision on it. When attacking the marked target, Grey Talon cripples it, applying stacks of bullet and magic resist reduction, as well as a movement slow. He also gains bonus headshot damage on the target.

When used through the Owl, the slowing effect is removed, but Grey Talon also marks nearby enemies.

Considerations: This ability might be tricky to balance due to the number of debuffs, which could make it either overpowered or underwhelming.

Additional Ideas:

  1. When marked through the Owl, basic attacks could be guided towards marked enemies.
  2. Chain targeting: Basic attacks could jump between marked enemies.
  3. Allies could gain increased movement speed when moving towards marked enemies.

Owl:​

Grey Talon sends an Owl into the air, which he can use as a camera to locate targets. The Owl has no duration limit but can be destroyed by minions, heroes, or towers with a single hit. It can zoom in but can't fly very high. The Owl has a maximum range, and it loses signal when entering any buildings (including mid).

You can use Hunter's Gaze and Devastating Arrow while controlling the Owl. The Owl's view can be exited and re-entered by pressing "2". After exiting, there's an 8-second cooldown (or another duration you choose) before re-entering is allowed.

If the Owl is destroyed, there is a 2-minute cooldown before it can be used again.


Eagle:​

Grey Talon sends an Eagle that he controls. Upon impact, the Eagle causes an AOE slow. On a direct hit, it deals moderate damage and executes enemies below 10% health. The Eagle can be destroyed by enemies. Its flight speed is fixed at medium, and it cannot explode in mid-air. If the Eagle doesn't hit anything, it disappears after 6 seconds.

Additional Idea: Add a slight knockback effect on impact, causing disruption and making it more useful in team fights or for controlling areas.
short true vision on enemies hit.


Devastating Arrow:​

Grey Talon focuses on the cursor and begins charging up his arrow. After 7 seconds of delay, he releases the arrow, which deals high damage and stuns enemies for 0.5 seconds. The longer the arrow travels, the more damage it deals. Once you start charging, you cannot change the aiming direction. When used in combination with the Owl, the arrow flies upwards and then towards the point the Owl was looking at.






Why i changed him. Grey talon seems to be a revenge seeking guy according to his lore, but his kit doesnt represent that. I tried to make something that would emphesise his searching for revenge ahhh theme by focusing on hunting and predator/prey theme.


His original 1 was fine
His 2 was a problem. Its a worth version of vindicta`s flight, making it feel less unique and satisfying. Also him shooting bow shotgun when using it didnt make sense. It doesnt kinda suit him, its just.. flying? he doesnt even have wings or anything bro just levitating. I decided to give him another bird to control because i felt like that waas his unique trait that should be developed

His 3 is a problem. Its not very useful, since it just gives you one arrow if somebody steps in it. It also doesnt feel satisfying to land. I played talon for 60 hours and most of the time i just threw it under peoples legs and hopped they wont move from that place. in late game it either completely useless or just pretty annoying depending on how its used.


His 4 is a problem. The owl either feels too overpowered and unfair since it executes below 20 percent (which is pretty busted) or it feels pretty useless since it has kinda low dmg ? and only can be used to finish enemies. Anyways, i love this abillity but i do think its really toxic, and thats why i moved it to the 3. I removed aoe damage and stun, and just left the execution below 10 percent, making it a tricky skill shot to land.


I wannna hear all ya thoughts! I will also redesign him visually, make a 3d model and plug that in unreal engine. I hope to make a little demo with just these mechanics i described. Thanks for reading!
 
Grey Talon has the slowest but hardest-hitting basic attacks in the game. He shoots arrows with explosive tips that stick to any object in the game. These arrows explode after 3 seconds, dealing small AOE (area of effect) damage.
Having modifier on a left click is a bad idea. However if you move it to right click you will lose the ability to zoom which is important (he is not suited to have modifier like Yamato) for an archer type character.

Grey Talon focuses on his target, marking it, slowing it, and gaining true vision on it. When attacking the marked target, Grey Talon cripples it, applying stacks of bullet and magic resist reduction, as well as a movement slow. He also gains bonus headshot damage on the target.
I think you should switch the slowing effect with the bullet and magic resist reduction and remove the stack effect so it will be fair for enemies. Aside from that, the ability is perfect.

These abilities together are a bad idea because this makes him a support utility backline which is bad for carries. Think of an ability that he can use that doesn't need to be manually control, so it does not put him out of the fight.
Devastating Arrow:
Basically a Jinx' Rocket or Ashe's arrow. Lower that delay and increase the ability damage and stun duration per 1 second it is charged
 
These abilities together are a bad idea because this makes him a support utility backline which is bad for carries. Think of an ability that he can use that doesn't need to be manually control, so it does not put him out of the fight.
owl has to be sent only once and after that you basically can just check it periodically or when chasing an enemy. Eagly is a skillshot that shouldnt be long to use, something like 6-7 seconds. But yeah, he wiill be more basic attack focused with these abillities
 
owl has to be sent only once and after that you basically can just check it periodically or when chasing an enemy. Eagly is a skillshot that shouldnt be long to use, something like 6-7 seconds. But yeah, he wiill be more basic attack focused with these abillities
Either Owl will be used as an overpowered ward or it will be useless especially how fragile it is in a FPS MOBA. For the case of Eagly, I think you're underestimating how long 6-7 seconds is especially for a carry character and have a short Time To Kill (TTK) in this game. I suggest changing Eagly to work similarly to Wraith's Cards or Ashe's Hawkshot.
its not, since if you use it with owl it works more like an artillery shell, landing after 7 second or smth
As I said you either come up with an idea to make Owl viable or this ult becomes similar to Jinx/Ashe ult
 
This is completely unnecessary. Also no offense: but going for "full hero reworks" is never going to be useful in any way. The developers know much better than you do and without their additional context or providing a really reasonable one of your own writing up things like this is wasted effort. It is telling a professor in mathematics that you have written a proof that 1+1 is in fact not 2.

Somewhat tangential: I don't think you have a solid grasp on how absurdly long a 7 seconds channel is.
 
This is completely unnecessary. Also no offense: but going for "full hero reworks" is never going to be useful in any way. The developers know much better than you do and without their additional context or providing a really reasonable one of your own writing up things like this is wasted effort. It is telling a professor in mathematics that you have written a proof that 1+1 is in fact not 2.

Somewhat tangential: I don't think you have a solid grasp on how absurdly long a 7 seconds channel is.
Though @woodenjoyer has several flaws in his idea I wouldn't say it's a wasted effort. I do and a lot of people love to read different ideas from other different people and debate over it even if it's good or bad. In this forum, it's either you teach or you learn.
 
Though @woodenjoyer has several flaws in his idea I wouldn't say it's a wasted effort. I do and a lot of people love to read different ideas from other different people and debate over it even if it's good or bad. In this forum, it's either you teach or you learn.
If for the sake of discussion, sure.

But this is making an extreme claim: that the hero would need a total rework. If you want to do that you better have some really good reason to or you're rambling in a vacuum.

It's like I said: you have to respect the knowledge the developers have. It's similar to trying to disprove an established claim in a niche field (game design) you probably have no real knowledge of. So if you care to be constructive it's much better to keep it smaller, more confined than making huge statements like this.
 
This is an only-in-the-trailer rework: Good looking abilities with plays that won't line up because opponents are smart. This kit would play closer to Warden's power fantasy, totally dominating a space but limited by those pesky kids getting away
 
Either Owl will be used as an overpowered ward or it will be useless especially how fragile it is in a FPS MOBA. For the case of Eagly, I think you're underestimating how long 6-7 seconds is especially for a carry character and have a short Time To Kill (TTK) in this game. I suggest changing Eagly to work similarly to Wraith's Cards or Ashe's Hawkshot.

As I said you either come up with an idea to make Owl viable or this ult becomes similar to Jinx/Ashe ult
thats fair! thanks for the feedback mate
 
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