Can we talk about Haze?

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rampagexx

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I am outright baffled to see that not more people are talking about how absurdly broken Haze is.
Noone is mentioning how absolutely crazy her Fixate scales, noone is talking about how her ultimate is literally a 1 click win button no matter what; Noone is talking about how she's just able to do whatever the hell she wants and still ultimately winning.

Fixate is the most broken passive I've seen in a long while. It's absurd how it's allowed to just go crazy, even if she loses lane, by simply getting one or two items. (worth 1000 souls total).

Fixate needs a nerf.
Her Ultimate needs a nerf.

Suggestion on Fixate nerf; Lower the scaling damage by half, which is able to be gained back at max rank on Fixate, not before.

Suggestion on Ultimate nerf; make it so she cannot use unstoppable with her ultimate. It's retarded that she's allowed to use such a free combo to essentially never die no matter what, because Healbane won't do shit to her in ult anyway. Only CC works on her, and she just outright mitigates it from scratch by getting one item.

Fix this god-forsaken broken mess of a character already. I'm sick and tired of seeing this free zero skill character carry games by essentially drooling on the keyboard. It's not skill expressive, it's not fun to play against.

Welcome to my ted-talk.
 
Its just a simple misunderstanding of how to play against haze and how to end game if you dominating on haze, pls learn more about game mechanics and how to counter high bullet damage
 
Wait wait wait, you forgot about sleep, which is not just a disable, but in fact additionally a stun, although it is not labeled as a stun. Waking time is nothing but a stun.
 
There's hundreds of these threads on forum and all come from pretty much new people. They stopped appearing weekly as people got better at game.

Haze even at just average lvl is mostly a feeder that doesn't do anything in match because everyone already figured out she's one trick pony and average Haze player is a moron that rushes dmg items instead of unstoppable which results in her pressing 4 and immediately getting stunned and killed. Seeing good Haze is such rarity to the point I treat her (and Vindicta) as dead slots in team until proven otherwise.

Metal skin and return fire destroys her if whole team buys it, that's it, 50k souls Haze is no match for these 2 items, the problem is getting your idiots pub teammates to buy them because they will definitely rush damage items first too lol. That said you can always save yourself using these and dash away. Did I mention that return fire triggers your bullet lifesteal? Yeah it's great item. 10/10

Additionally if enemy team has Haze and few other gun heroes it's always good to buy these 2 items or adv armor and return fire for more reliable defense, there are also escalating resilience and frenzy which allow you to reach almost 90% bullet resist which is funny.

If you have problem escaping her ult warp stone or superior stamina are amazing for this.

Now Haze's real strengths are her invisibility which allows her to quickly move through map but is hard countered by good headphones and her dagger which allows her to either run away to attack first with debuffs on you, that simply makes it even better point to get adv bullet armor asap which will allow you to survive before you can retaliate, ofc you can also buy debuff remover and remove sleep before it triggers but it requires fast fingers and is more situational item.

Overall game gives you a ton of bullet countering items, start buying them instead of listening to builds like they were set in stone solution to every game, they aren't, most of them are medicore copy of pros' single game with no understanding of why these items were purchased.
 
Even though Haze requires a somewhat specific build to counter, if you play the game right, you can pretty much interrupt her to death without her landing a single bullet. In my opinion, Haze should be buffed because there are so many ways and characters to counter her. I get it if you're inexperienced and don’t know how to counter her and I’ve been there myself, but after doing some research and adapting, she’s now one of the easiest characters to counter and kill in the game, in my opinion.
 
If anything I cannot tell if Haze is a strong or weak because most player who play the character does not seem to know how to play game right.
 
Yes, I agree that Haze's fixation needs to be nerfed. Fixation's damage progression is crazy, especially in the early match if we have to face her in solo lane 1 vs 1, when we really don't have any opportunity yet to buy every specific item to counter her
 
Dashiell said:
There's hundreds of these threads on forum and all come from pretty much new people. They stopped appearing weekly as people got better at game.

Haze even at just average lvl is mostly a feeder that doesn't do anything in match because everyone already figured out she's one trick pony and average Haze player is a moron that rushes dmg items instead of unstoppable which results in her pressing 4 and immediately getting stunned and killed. Seeing good Haze is such rarity to the point I treat her (and Vindicta) as dead slots in team until proven otherwise.

Metal skin and return fire destroys her if whole team buys it, that's it, 50k souls Haze is no match for these 2 items, the problem is getting your idiots pub teammates to buy them because they will definitely rush damage items first too lol. That said you can always save yourself using these and dash away. Did I mention that return fire triggers your bullet lifesteal? Yeah it's great item. 10/10

Additionally if enemy team has Haze and few other gun heroes it's always good to buy these 2 items or adv armor and return fire for more reliable defense, there are also escalating resilience and frenzy which allow you to reach almost 90% bullet resist which is funny.

If you have problem escaping her ult warp stone or superior stamina are amazing for this.

Now Haze's real strengths are her invisibility which allows her to quickly move through map but is hard countered by good headphones and her dagger which allows her to either run away to attack first with debuffs on you, that simply makes it even better point to get adv bullet armor asap which will allow you to survive before you can retaliate, ofc you can also buy debuff remover and remove sleep before it triggers but it requires fast fingers and is more situational item.

Overall game gives you a ton of bullet countering items, start buying them instead of listening to builds like they were set in stone solution to every game, they aren't, most of them are medicore copy of pros' single game with no understanding of why these items were purchased.
Click to expand...
You're one of those people who don't actually look at the thread before you answer.

Metal skin is a counter progressive item, but does that mean the entire team economy needs to go towards one character, and even then, not being able to counteract it, just goes to show that it's outright retardedly OP don't you think?

Also, Unstoppable and Silencer, breaks her entire kit.
If you think that I should be forced into a build path (that in most cases won't work) and then think that's a good balance metric, you're insane.

My main issue with her ult is her interactions with items scaling ontop of the ult, nothing more. Her ult is fine other then that.

My main issue, to specify, is Fixate. It's broken. And if you don't think it is, you're huffing copium beyond measure.
 
smehp787 said:
Its just a simple misunderstanding of how to play against haze and how to end game if you dominating on haze, pls learn more about game mechanics and how to counter high bullet damage
Click to expand...
You probably have no idea what I'm even talking about for you to even say this.
But I guess that's the point of this message.
 
rampagexx said:
You probably have no idea what I'm even talking about for you to even say this.
But I guess that's the point of this message.
Click to expand...
My point is that haze is a pretty good balanced character now and there is no reason to nerf her abilities. All problems that was mentioned in OP post is a simple misunderstanding of gameplay mechanics and lack of skill.
Previously haze was really imbalanced character, but she already nerfed now.
 
smehp787 said:
My point is that haze is a pretty good balanced character now and there is no reason to nerf her abilities. All problems that was mentioned in OP post is a simple misunderstanding of gameplay mechanics and lack of skill.
Previously haze was really imbalanced character, but she already nerfed now
Click to expand...
I do agree that Haze is rather fine in general. But the Fixate scaling is absolutely fucking insane. And the interactions that you get with her just using Unstoppable or Silencer or both with the ultimate, just kills all counterplay to Haze in general, especially since she can just subvert the entire enemy team, by not being visible. She can stunlock a game singlehandedly by just lurking.

To clarify further; I think the scaling of the Fixate on the early-game to midgame, is what is bothering me. As her damage scales insanely hard way too early in the game, able to force you out of lane pretty easily in 1v1 lane situations (I think the only exception to this rule is like, Abrahams?)
So just make her a lategame monster on Fixate, but nerf her early.
Give her resources back to her in lategame for all I care, but she's way too oppressive, just like Warden is, if she gets ahead. And she needs little to nothing to get ahead, in most matchups.

This is not about lack of skil nor is it about misunderstanding of gameplay mechanics.
I know full well what the hell is happening, and I think it's actually just brainrot to say that she is fine in any way(in her current state).
 
gimmekeyplskthnx said:
What conversation is there to add to? It's just you seething about the universally agreed worst hero in the game.
Click to expand...
At that point, might aswell not reply then, no?
But yeah, she's complained about a ton. I just need to air out my rage, since I cannot fathom why she hasn't been nerfed further with how toxic her gameplay pattern is.

Just posting and being all like "must be low skill bracket" doesn't really help that.
Just saying.
 
rampagexx said:
I do agree that Haze is rather fine in general. But the Fixate scaling is absolutely fucking insane. And the interactions that you get with her just using Unstoppable or Silencer or both with the ultimate, just kills all counterplay to Haze in general, especially since she can just subvert the entire enemy team, by not being visible. She can stunlock a game singlehandedly by just lurking.

To clarify further; I think the scaling of the Fixate on the early-game to midgame, is what is bothering me. As her damage scales insanely hard way too early in the game, able to force you out of lane pretty easily in 1v1 lane situations (I think the only exception to this rule is like, Abrahams?)
So just make her a lategame monster on Fixate, but nerf her early.
Give her resources back to her in lategame for all I care, but she's way too oppressive, just like Warden is, if she gets ahead. And she needs little to nothing to get ahead, in most matchups.

This is not about lack of skil nor is it about misunderstanding of gameplay mechanics.
I know full well what the hell is happening, and I think it's actually just brainrot to say that she is fine in any way(in her current state).
Click to expand...
She's nowhere close to good in lane, what are you smoking?
 
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