Buff Silver

[PsychedeliKit]

She is so weak, losing against her is just a bad team.

She's truthfully not; it's as I said earlier, it's just feast or famine. If you lose lane early then yeah; you will struggle because of a lot of reasons and you have to farm to catch up. You still CAN catch up; but normally this puts your team at a significant disadvantage fighting without you while you do; especially if you're not aware of the map enough to join the fights you're within reach to.

But if you win lane early, you effectively become a very big threat. You just have to get through early, which requires a lane-mate who can support your weaknesses.

There are tricks you can do to help mitigate some of those impacts by setting up for your teammate, but you have to play VERY well.

 

[Szyben]

She's truthfully not; it's as I said earlier, it's just feast or famine.

Can't agree with this though. She's bottom of the win rate across the skill rank board, not even managing to crest 50% in a low rank lobby where most feast or famine characters would excel.
44.9% overall; 2nd to last above Shiv
49.6% in Initiate, dropping down the ranks to last once you hit Ritualist

Playing her all the time, Silver is going to feel better to me than someone who has her as just selected in her rotation. As she seems like a common pick for you too, I'd say we have a little bit of a better time than most on her.
She still straight up blows.

Thanks for the lightning scroll recommendation, btw

 

[PsychedeliKit]

Can't agree with this though. She's bottom of the win rate across the skill rank board, not even managing to crest 50% in a low rank lobby where most feast or famine characters would excel.
44.9% overall; 2nd to last above Shiv
49.6% in Initiate, dropping down the ranks to last once you hit Ritualist

Playing her all the time, Silver is going to feel better to me than someone who has her as just selected in her rotation. As she seems like a common pick for you too, I'd say we have a little bit of a better time than most on her.
She still straight up blows.

Thanks for the lightning scroll recommendation, btw

Well see; this is not EXACTLY a true statement; though her winrate percentage does seem correct. And I'm not saying she does not need work overall.

She is a Feast or Famine character; this is actually exaggerated by the fact that-- Silver is un-ironically a bit of a mechanically intensive hero. Yes, in her Lycan form her abilities are indeed very straight forward; but there's a lot that goes on to be able to make that work.

Her human form is-- As stated prior-- Weaker; intentionally so. Her Lycan form is admittedly stronger, but you have to get through your weak phases to utilize it. There are tricks you can do to minimize the downsides, but overall it is an uphill battle.

In lower ranks, players aren't mechanically skilled enough to get past that hurdle to get to her strong point, so her winrate there is lower because players aren't good enough to be able to get over the hurtle; and even the times they DO transform, they likely transform at inopportune times rather than trying to measure out (as best as you can) her transformations.

In higher ranks people are more mechanically able to transform at proper times, and are able to transform more consistently and therefore do get more use out of her; but the enemies are also equally as skilled and are more competent in countering her by stopping her early; which delays her 'coming online.'

Winrate alone isn't a great indicator of how someone is doing; there are other factors besides that to note, mainly player skill.

Silver does need SOME work; because when she's ahead, she feels unstoppable, when she's behind, she feels worthless. It's difficult to get ahead in low ranks because, well let's face it; you and everyone else sucks. It's difficult to get ahead in high ranks because, well let's face it; the enemies know how to capitalize on her weaknesses.

I reiterate, I don't think she's perfect; but I do think she is more balanced than people think; I think she does need some work and some power adjustments, but she's not "SO weak" as the original message implied. There is a difference between being generally on the weaker side, and being near worthless as the OP implied, y'feel?

Yeah, ultimately; people like you and I who play her more often than not, as she is my main sitting at 50%+ of my total matches played on Silver; will have an easier time than someone who doesn't; and I think that is generally an alright design concept, that it takes actual investment to "git gud" with, so to speak.

You are welcome.

Quick edit: When I say "You" when I mention player rank and skill, I do not mean you specifically; just like the general "When you're in low ranks, you tend to suck." Broad statement, not individual statement.

 

[Szyben]

Well see; this is not EXACTLY a true statement; though her winrate percentage does seem correct. And I'm not saying she does not need work overall.

She is a Feast or Famine character; this is actually exaggerated by the fact that-- Silver is un-ironically a bit of a mechanically intensive hero. Yes, in her Lycan form her abilities are indeed very straight forward; but there's a lot that goes on to be able to make that work.

Her human form is-- As stated prior-- Weaker; intentionally so. Her Lycan form is admittedly stronger, but you have to get through your weak phases to utilize it. There are tricks you can do to minimize the downsides, but overall it is an uphill battle.

In lower ranks, players aren't mechanically skilled enough to get past that hurdle to get to her strong point, so her winrate there is lower because players aren't good enough to be able to get over the hurtle; and even the times they DO transform, they likely transform at inopportune times rather than trying to measure out (as best as you can) her transformations.

In higher ranks people are more mechanically able to transform at proper times, and are able to transform more consistently and therefore do get more use out of her; but the enemies are also equally as skilled and are more competent in countering her by stopping her early; which delays her 'coming online.'

Winrate alone isn't a great indicator of how someone is doing; there are other factors besides that to note, mainly player skill.

Silver does need SOME work; because when she's ahead, she feels unstoppable, when she's behind, she feels worthless. It's difficult to get ahead in low ranks because, well let's face it; you and everyone else sucks. It's difficult to get ahead in high ranks because, well let's face it; the enemies know how to capitalize on her weaknesses.

I reiterate, I don't think she's perfect; but I do think she is more balanced than people think; I think she does need some work and some power adjustments, but she's not "SO weak" as the original message implied. There is a difference between being generally on the weaker side, and being near worthless as the OP implied, y'feel?

Yeah, ultimately; people like you and I who play her more often than not, as she is my main sitting at 50%+ of my total matches played on Silver; will have an easier time than someone who doesn't; and I think that is generally an alright design concept, that it takes actual investment to "git gud" with, so to speak.

You are welcome.

Quick edit: When I say "You" when I mention player rank and skill, I do not mean you specifically; just like the general "When you're in low ranks, you tend to suck." Broad statement, not individual statement.

Saying that you just need to get past the terrible part of a character that you spend most of the game playing is coping. Don't worry, I'm doing it too.

But winrate, especially seperated into ranks, is a wonderful indicator of what you're talking about. If you pin two people who win or lose as much as each other and are considered somewhat even, what are the chances that the person on this character wins compare to that character.
In saying that those mechanically skilled should be able to do better, you're saying that Silver's win rate should go up as the ranks do.

If at every rank she does terribly, then it is not the case of doing something right or wrong.

I don't think win rate is a good indication of everything. I feel like I do well on Silver, then see stats and I'm underperforming overall. I enjoy the character for playing the character, I don't enjoy the game for how little I get to play the character doing it. (Even projected as higher than current rank while playing Silver)

I know win rate doesn't indicate how well a hero is made. How good a kit is or healthy for the game they are. I could not care less for Graves, even though she's very close to the deciding factor in every Street Brawl game I play. A character with the highest winrate that I considered playing just so I'd stop having to face her. But being able to overwhelm the enemy without even being in LOS doesn't strike me as enjoyable.

Silver doesn't feel unstoppable when she's transformed, she feels even. Plays like a tank Abrams. Most characters are nearly unstoppable when they're ahead, most characters only matter with utility when they're behind.

She's not perfect, but neither is Lash —my other main. Lash can reliably provide for the team and the match, even behind —but that's utility. Lash can do all of that at any moment his abilities aren't on cooldown —that's how I want to feel on Silver, like I actually matter.

I'm with OP on this.

- This was typed on grey screens while playing Silver.

 

[PsychedeliKit]

Saying that you just need to get past the terrible part of a character that you spend most of the game playing is coping. Don't worry, I'm doing it too.

But winrate, especially seperated into ranks, is a wonderful indicator of what you're talking about. If you pin two people who win or lose as much as each other and are considered somewhat even, what are the chances that the person on this character wins compare to that character.
In saying that those mechanically skilled should be able to do better, you're saying that Silver's win rate should go up as the ranks do.

If at every rank she does terribly, then it is not the case of doing something right or wrong.

I don't think win rate is a good indication of everything. I feel like I do well on Silver, then see stats and I'm underperforming overall. I enjoy the character for playing the character, I don't enjoy the game for how little I get to play the character doing it. (Even projected as higher than current rank while playing Silver)

I know win rate doesn't indicate how well a hero is made. How good a kit is or healthy for the game they are. I could not care less for Graves, even though she's very close to the deciding factor in every Street Brawl game I play. A character with the highest winrate that I considered playing just so I'd stop having to face her. But being able to overwhelm the enemy without even being in LOS doesn't strike me as enjoyable.

Silver doesn't feel unstoppable when she's transformed, she feels even. Plays like a tank Abrams. Most characters are nearly unstoppable when they're ahead, most characters only matter with utility when they're behind.

She's not perfect, but neither is Lash —my other main. Lash can reliably provide for the team and the match, even behind —but that's utility. Lash can do all of that at any moment his abilities aren't on cooldown —that's how I want to feel on Silver, like I actually matter.

I'm with OP on this.

- This was typed on grey screens while playing Silver.

Well, in other games I play there are frequently characters that do have highs and lows in their power spikes; and Silver's is just early game.

But; the reason I say winrate isn't the all encompassing factor is moreso because the reasons for the winrates vary heavily depending on rank for Silver; other characters not so much.

Silver's is because in low ranks she's a mechanically intensive character whom it does take practice with; a skill that many low ranks do not have. And high ranks because her weaknesses are very exploitable. Other characters winrates may just be because their overall kit is weak.

I for one do pretty well on Silver; even on games that I start off behind. The most recent match this comes to mind on is I was behind in lane; spent some time farming in the mid game, and by the end of the game I was one of the top damages and killers in the game; not the top by any means; but high enough up there that I contributed well; despite the troublesome early.

On the flipside I also had a match recently where I absolutely dominated and no one could stop me at any point of the game; because I wasn't halted early, I was allowed to stay in lane and farm souls in laning phase, got Lycan and pretty much took the game from there.

That's why I say that I don't think she's truly weak; I don't think she's in a great spot by any means, it's just most people are hitting the famine more often than not because in high ranks the weaknesses are very easily exploitable without many caveats; which I do think needs to be addressed. And then in low ranks they simply don't play well enough.

And as for the comment on two individuals as skilled as eachother; in a vacuum sure. But in a real game that's where the discrepancy happens. Because Silver is very vulnerable early and being put on the backfoot that early makes for a hard game which yes, you are more likely to lose. Once again I think things need to be done to fix that; but that's not directly related to her overall power level. I just think she's TOO Feast or Famine compared to what she gets out of it.

I don't think she's weak, I just don't think the current level of which is exactly on point. I'd love to more power put into her base form; because currently I think her Lycan form is indeed quite strong; albeit maybe it could use with a slight touch up. I believe Silver's main problem is her human form is too weak comparatively to everyone else; which makes lower skilled players lose much more often since they then cannot transform as often to get the power spikes; and is also the situation in which high level players can penalize her for just being weaker.

If they were to alleviate her human form slightly; lower skilled players would be able to exist in lane more often, would do more; allowing them to transform more to actually then begin to "Feast", so to speak. And in higher rank lobbies with more skilled players; it would remove some of that early game pressure that puts her in her "Famine" state too easily, giving her more time to come online and compete before being put truly behind.