Buff Silver

[DodoRex]

Silver was overnerfed; she is completely useless to her team. Buff her back to how she was on the release.

 

[Vanix]

Hell nah!

 

[van17ino6]

NO
Silver is by far the most broken hero right now even after the nerf, she still tanks a team and a tower so no.

 

[HerrWinfried]

I just got out of a match and I think the character is really strong. Especially when it fights to the death and then turns into a werewolf and gets full health we got completely shredded. It wiped out the entire team within 10 seconds. I think this character still needs to be adjusted.

 

[nickcallaway955]

I think she does still need adjusting but atm I don't think she is overpowered or anything. Stalling and bullet counters work well against her. My only complaint is that bloodlust feels clunky. It has a rather quick timer on decay, so it's feels Sisyphus-like to build up ult once you're late game. I do think it's balanced it's just feels bad to me.

 

[PsychedeliKit]

She wasn't overnerfed. She's much more adequate now with perfectly level counters if you're just not obtuse about it.

Fight her early. She's extremely weak in laning phase pre-werewolf, it's very difficult for her to farm; and she's highly susceptible to CC in this stage. If you put her behind in laning phase it's very hard for her to catch up due to just how bad she is at farming.

Don't fight her in Werewolf form without your team. You don't stand in Haze's ult when she casts it; you don't eat the entirety of Mina's ult, you always try to get out of the way of Seven's ult; she's the same. If you know she has ult available; then don't just jump on her unless you're able to CC and kill her. It takes damage for her Lycan form to come out; but if she lands her combo she will get into it. Get an item that reduces the damage she does or get bullet resistance, both of which will slow the time it takes for her to jump into Lycan form.

When she does transform-- Just back up unless you have a massive advantage on her, she's still kill-able; just not solo.

To build her, you pretty much want a mix of vitality and gun, spirit is nice but mostly not-needed on Silver. Play safe pre-Lycan; as best you can. If you have a lane-mate who isn't supporting your downsides early then you're gonna struggle. But if you have an activate mate that helps take pressure off you and puts it onto enemies; then you will be fine.

 

[Ionbound]

She wasn't overnerfed. She's much more adequate now with perfectly level counters if you're just not obtuse about it.

Fight her early. She's extremely weak in laning phase pre-werewolf, it's very difficult for her to farm; and she's highly susceptible to CC in this stage. If you put her behind in laning phase it's very hard for her to catch up due to just how bad she is at farming.

Don't fight her in Werewolf form without your team. You don't stand in Haze's ult when she casts it; you don't eat the entirety of Mina's ult, you always try to get out of the way of Seven's ult; she's the same. If you know she has ult available; then don't just jump on her unless you're able to CC and kill her. It takes damage for her Lycan form to come out; but if she lands her combo she will get into it. Get an item that reduces the damage she does or get bullet resistance, both of which will slow the time it takes for her to jump into Lycan form.

When she does transform-- Just back up unless you have a massive advantage on her, she's still kill-able; just not solo.

To build her, you pretty much want a mix of vitality and gun, spirit is nice but mostly not-needed on Silver. Play safe pre-Lycan; as best you can. If you have a lane-mate who isn't supporting your downsides early then you're gonna struggle. But if you have an activate mate that helps take pressure off you and puts it onto enemies; then you will be fine.

I just had a game where I literally could not build up to transform bloodlust, even with a flipkick+slam fire combo with Tankbuster active on the mark. You say 'when she does transform' but honestly if she gets even a little behind in laning phase, at least in my limited experience, there is no 'when'. She just straight up cannot transform before dying to...Complete characters.

 

[PsychedeliKit]

I just had a game where I literally could not build up to transform bloodlust, even with a flipkick+slam fire combo with Tankbuster active on the mark. You say 'when she does transform' but honestly if she gets even a little behind in laning phase, at least in my limited experience, there is no 'when'. She just straight up cannot transform before dying to...Complete characters.

No yes I agree in this aspect; if she gets behind it's very difficult for her to come back. I do think she could use adjustments to perhaps make the human form more overall stronger; and perhaps increase the cooldown of Lycan form to compensate in order to shift the paradigm of her power just a little bit.

But you do just have to farm up; if you fall behind you cannot take fights; you have to farm side lanes; which is hard for her yes. On the flipside I just had a game where I pretty much dominated as Silver because my lane-mate did really well before I had Lycan to sustain so I was not put behind; was on an even field when I got Lycan and I was able to take myself from there. Currently she is very sink or swim, which is a separate discussion of what to do with her; but she is neither too strong nor too weak.

 

[Ionbound]

No yes I agree in this aspect; if she gets behind it's very difficult for her to come back. I do think she could use adjustments to perhaps make the human form more overall stronger; and perhaps increase the cooldown of Lycan form to compensate in order to shift the paradigm of her power just a little bit.

But you do just have to farm up; if you fall behind you cannot take fights; you have to farm side lanes; which is hard for her yes. On the flipside I just had a game where I pretty much dominated as Silver because my lane-mate did really well before I had Lycan to sustain so I was not put behind; was on an even field when I got Lycan and I was able to take myself from there. Currently she is very sink or swim, which is a separate discussion of what to do with her; but she is neither too strong nor too weak.

I mean that's fair, my bigger problem is the fact that if you're not a top-tier player or in a coordinated duo with someone who can support you, literally half her kit is locked off. And because of how she's designed, that's like 3/4ths of her power budget, which renders her genuinely unplayable for solo Q Alch-tier scrubs like me, and most of the player base. Even the lowest of low skill floor characters in Dota aren't like that, it's a serious design issue IMO.

It wasn't even a huge soul deficit because I had a well-stacked Trophy Hunter from area assists and was trying to farm safely without being ganked, I just didn't have the stats to survive without being able to access the heal from the transform before being burst down.

 

[PsychedeliKit]

I mean that's fair, my bigger problem is the fact that if you're not a top-tier player or in a coordinated duo with someone who can support you, literally half her kit is locked off. And because of how she's designed, that's like 3/4ths of her power budget, which renders her genuinely unplayable for solo Q Alch-tier scrubs like me, and most of the player base. Even the lowest of low skill floor characters in Dota aren't like that, it's a serious design issue IMO.

I do agree on the aspect that I don't think 'sink or swim' design philosophy is good. Especially on Silver. I don't know how they could fix that for Silver; but I don't think it's a good idea. And don't get me wrong; I'm not a high tier player. I'm currently shown as high tier Arcanist; but the game thinks my Silver gameplay is above that, so my 'rank' with Silver may be something along the lines of very low Ritualist. So I'm not a great almighty player myself.

But yes; in matches you get put behind it is ATROCIOUS. In matches you don't? It's great. I think they could fix that; but I don't think Silver is currently either too stong; nor too weak.

 

[Szyben]

Silver's Curse is really only good at taking apart teams when they are disadvantaged; locked down, out of position, low health, spread out too far. Really good at pressing the team's advantage, and her own, but abysmal at making that space or getting herself to that advantage. Terrible at taking people in the air too, and that comes free with your character. The hero needs to be babied.

If you're playing neutral and having a firefight, then the transformation is incredibly inconvenient. Go in and die or sit with your team and wait it out. Maybe sit in an ambush position to see if someone can be caught out. I really only have success on the hero when playing her like an assassin. After watching a lot of other live matches, she's jungler first and foremost and cleanup second. Even then, it's always playing from behind.

Street Brawl is absolutely just feast or famine suffering on her.

I don't like it; I feel like I need to do to much, earn too little for it, and am absolutely coping about it and playing her anyway. If anything gives me carpal tunnel for absolutely mediocre gameplay, it'll be Silver and not FFXIV.

 

[Ragnaman]

Biggest problem of silver is not that she gets extra health, THE EXTRA HEALTH IS ACTUALLY A 800HP HEAL.

 

[PsychedeliKit]

Biggest problem of silver is not that she gets extra health, THE EXTRA HEALTH IS ACTUALLY A 800HP HEAL.

The extra health is not a heal by direct nature; the extra health is, as it's stated; an extra health. The transformation itself has a heal attached. That's why you randomly die to her. Don't all in her if she hasn't popped Lycan yet. It has a 30% Missing heal attached to it; poke her out, engage in quick trades until she transforms; once she does that she has a full half minute of being weak where she can't truly fight anymore since she no longer has access to her ultimate.

Silver's Curse is really only good at taking apart teams when they are disadvantaged; locked down, out of position, low health, spread out too far. Really good at pressing the team's advantage, and her own, but abysmal at making that space or getting herself to that advantage. Terrible at taking people in the air too, and that comes free with your character. The hero needs to be babied.

If you're playing neutral and having a firefight, then the transformation is incredibly inconvenient. Go in and die or sit with your team and wait it out. Maybe sit in an ambush position to see if someone can be caught out. I really only have success on the hero when playing her like an assassin. After watching a lot of other live matches, she's jungler first and foremost and cleanup second. Even then, it's always playing from behind.

Street Brawl is absolutely just feast or famine suffering on her.

I don't like it; I feel like I need to do to much, earn too little for it, and am absolutely coping about it and playing her anyway. If anything gives me carpal tunnel for absolutely mediocre gameplay, it'll be Silver and not FFXIV.

She does have a weakness against flying enemies this is undoubtedly true; but you're not out of luck with this. First off, there is an item specifically designed to help you deal with flyers; and another bit is if you're in your Lycan form you can actually utilize your Leap up into the air into a bite; I've caught out and outright killed a few people who thought flying up would save them. And yes, you do need to temper your damage until you know you can go in with your ult; if it so happens to pop early you will just either have to wait entirely, or; you can try to go in and get a cheeky bite. You have a heal + bonus heal when you transform,; you can easily dash jump in, bite; and leap out depending on who you're fighting, you have to make a choice. You cannot just outright all in; she's not a tank; she's much closer to a bruiser. Quick trades in Lycan is actually quite good for you because of your 1's healing.

 

[Szyben]

She does have a weakness against flying enemies this is undoubtedly true; but you're not out of luck with this. First off, there is an item specifically designed to help you deal with flyers; and another bit is if you're in your Lycan form you can actually utilize your Leap up into the air into a bite; I've caught out and outright killed a few people who thought flying up would save them. And yes, you do need to temper your damage until you know you can go in with your ult; if it so happens to pop early you will just either have to wait entirely, or; you can try to go in and get a cheeky bite. You have a heal + bonus heal when you transform,; you can easily dash jump in, bite; and leap out depending on who you're fighting, you have to make a choice. You cannot just outright all in; she's not a tank; she's much closer to a bruiser. Quick trades in Lycan is actually quite good for you because of your 1's healing.

You're right; Mauling Leap and the Bite can definitely catch you up to someone. I'm more presenting it as a counter. You're not staying on or catching an Ivy, Vindicta, or Talon. You're not outdamaging a Rem sleeping on anyone but a glass cannon. You're probably not outdamaging, or even catching, someone with Paige around. Mo & Krill is a total shutdown, Dynamo too. Lady Geist will always ult you when you're going in, eating through her or not.

While I'd like to utilize her as a bruiser, since that's where she preforms, she can only really attain that something like 20% (rough estimate based on feeling) of the time. Playing skirmisher in her Lycan form is usually necessary, even sometimes the only way to not feed.

There's ways around that, like in every hero shooter; wait until they've popped the CC or they're distracted. That doesn't make them not a counter, smarter people will hold those abilities since the threat of them is worse than just sending them out all the time...

My point is that she's less a problem than most people think she is. Plus she just doesn't preform unless she's walking over the enemy. She launched as a bruiser hero that had to go through a chip-damage phase, she currently feels like an assassin with no damage that has a bruiser form. Topped with a barely manageable overheat mechanic. Already not doing damage, she has to take a break from a fight or just sit it out when transforming at an inopportune moment.

I still play her and rather like the choked, lever-action shotgun. Despite my accuracy and tendency to skirmish, I'm still constantly worse off than most other heroes in the game in the ending stats. She can't hold her own close range without Lycan's Curse, and she's the worst option staying at midrange until opportunity strikes.

 

[PsychedeliKit]

You're right; Mauling Leap and the Bite can definitely catch you up to someone. I'm more presenting it as a counter. You're not staying on or catching an Ivy, Vindicta, or Talon. You're not outdamaging a Rem sleeping on anyone but a glass cannon. You're probably not outdamaging, or even catching, someone with Paige around. Mo & Krill is a total shutdown, Dynamo too. Lady Geist will always ult you when you're going in, eating through her or not.

While I'd like to utilize her as a bruiser, since that's where she preforms, she can only really attain that something like 20% (rough estimate based on feeling) of the time. Playing skirmisher in her Lycan form is usually necessary, even sometimes the only way to not feed.

There's ways around that, like in every hero shooter; wait until they've popped the CC or they're distracted. That doesn't make them not a counter, smarter people will hold those abilities since the threat of them is worse than just sending them out all the time...

My point is that she's less a problem than most people think she is. Plus she just doesn't preform unless she's walking over the enemy. She launched as a bruiser hero that had to go through a chip-damage phase, she currently feels like an assassin with no damage that has a bruiser form. Topped with a barely manageable overheat mechanic. Already not doing damage, she has to take a break from a fight or just sit it out when transforming at an inopportune moment.

I still play her and rather like the choked, lever-action shotgun. Despite my accuracy and tendency to skirmish, I'm still constantly worse off than most other heroes in the game in the ending stats. She can't hold her own close range without Lycan's Curse, and she's the worst option staying at midrange until opportunity strikes.

I agree in some aspects; absolutely, yeah. She is in a very weird spot; but I think more of that is because of just how "Feast or Famine" she is. But don't get me wrong; if you can hit her combo she does decent damage even in human form-- But only with her abilities up. She is a very swingy character. I mean on even footing; even in early levels, if I can hit my combo I'll do half of someones HP bar.

She requires a lot of health to be able to sustain; she requires gun damage to compete. Going spirit on her, especially early; is almost downright throwing.

She is a character highly susceptible to CC, most likely more than most; and yes I do know about Mo, I think that character still is busted but I digress. She is an absolute threat in Lycan form; and yes if people use mobility tools to escape her they will get away; especially if you don't build properly for it.

Warp Stone is highly useful; Kinetic Dash and Enduring Speed are both staples in my kit, sometimes you can even go as far as to pick up Lightning Scroll which severely locks down people in your ult. Combine that with using your 2 to kick someone towards your team before you transform and you can absolutely wreck.

The problem is when you fall behind Silver is so bad of a farmer of both minions and jungle creeps that it's quite difficult to get back into the game at a reasonable pace compared to everyone else. I think she needs improvement in the realm of being able to deal with jungle critters and minions in order to keep her farm more comparable with everyone else.

 

[Szyben]

Warp Stone is highly useful; Kinetic Dash and Enduring Speed are both staples in my kit, sometimes you can even go as far as to pick up Lightning Scroll which severely locks down people in your ult. Combine that with using your 2 to kick someone towards your team before you transform and you can absolutely wreck.

Part of me didn't think that Lightning Scroll would work all that well. That, or it would be extremely broken. I'm assuming every swipe/ability counts as damage from your ultimate? Otherwise yeah, Kinetic Dash is how I deal with jungle farming and keeping up damage output while Stamina Mastery allows me to outmaneuver people.

yes if people use mobility tools to escape her they will get away; especially if you don't build properly for it.

Phantom Strike is very fun when I get it. Used right, not only can you cross gaps, but avoid CC.

The problem is when you fall behind Silver is so bad of a farmer of both minions and jungle creeps that it's quite difficult to get back into the game at a reasonable pace compared to everyone else. I think she needs improvement in the realm of being able to deal with jungle critters and minions in order to keep her farm more comparable with everyone else.

Funny thing, watching all the Silver I do, most of them fall behind early lane then make up for it by running camps until they can stay even. Then just play her as an ambush hero. I, on the other hand, can't earn souls worth a damn on any hero very well in early laning phase. Pretty good at playing from behind though. Sucks that I have to do it at an even worse deficit on Silver.

---

I find myself behind the enemy team, sometimes chunking and sometimes distracting a couple of people, and never really see a result unless I chase that person to the ends of the earth. Even then, it often ends up being an even trade as someone deconstructs my team's frontline.

I guess we're in some kind of agreement. She's atrociously swingy. I enjoy her because the abilities are fun. I just wish I had some use to the team without being puppy.

 

[PsychedeliKit]

Part of me didn't think that Lightning Scroll would work all that well. That, or it would be extremely broken. I'm assuming every swipe/ability counts as damage from your ultimate? Otherwise yeah, Kinetic Dash is how I deal with jungle farming and keeping up damage output while Stamina Mastery allows me to outmaneuver people.


Phantom Strike is very fun when I get it. Used right, not only can you cross gaps, but avoid CC.


Funny thing, watching all the Silver I do, most of them fall behind early lane then make up for it by running camps until they can stay even. Then just play her as an ambush hero. I, on the other hand, can't earn souls worth a damn on any hero very well in early laning phase. Pretty good at playing from behind though. Sucks that I have to do it at an even worse deficit on Silver.

---

I find myself behind the enemy team, sometimes chunking and sometimes distracting a couple of people, and never really see a result unless I chase that person to the ends of the earth. Even then, it often ends up being an even trade as someone deconstructs my team's frontline.

I guess we're in some kind of agreement. She's atrociously swingy. I enjoy her because the abilities are fun. I just wish I had some use to the team without being puppy.

Yeah; Lighting Strikes procs off literally everything you do; even a basic left click; so it's guaranteed stun on literally anyone you fight, which can give you just enough time to get a kill, but it's a very expensive full item slot in which spirit doesn't actually do a lot for you; so it's an extremely situational pick.

She's fun, but yes; you're almost always forced to play from behind because of how weak her human form is in comparison to everyone else on an even field; if you fall behind pre-lycan you just cannot partake in any fight and be useful.

She needs something done; and not just straight buffs, she needs a bit of a rehash on her power.

 

[Szyben]

I can agree with that. I've been throwing similar pleas at the private hero forum, be it a void or not. Transformative heroes with 2 kits tend to fly between overpowered and unusable in most games until the devs just give up on them and leave them in an underpowered state.
I hope that's not the case with Silver.

 

[PsychedeliKit]

Mhm, here's hoping they shift some of the power level around. As it s tands she's either unfun to paly because you're behind, or unfun to fight because she rolls you. There is no inbetween.

 

[DodoRex]

She is so weak, losing against her is just a bad team.