Brass Knuckles (T1 Weapon Active)

[Rosgath]

I like concepts for T1 weapon activatables because it's a spot that feels like it really needs to be filled. Here's another idea for one.

Item Name: Brass Knuckles
Item Type: Weapon
Cost: 500 Souls(T1)
Stats:
+12% Melee damage
+20% Light Melee speed (Conditional)

Active: (12s Cooldown)
Engage in a flurry of fists! For the next 6 seconds, you cannot perform Heavy Melee attacks. Instead, your Light melee attack speed is increased by 20% and holding the melee button continuously performs Light melee attacks. Killing a creep or securing a soul with a melee attack while this effect is active increases your melee damage by 7 for 30 seconds (stacks up to 5 times).

As others have noted before, the Weapon category T1 lacks an item for melee, despite the fact that melee damage scales with bonus bullet damage. Here I thought I'd throw something in that might be really cool, going on a melee frenzy.

 

[Vofi]

After the end of the item's effect, there should be a delay of 1.5 seconds before you can make any punch, because... You can accidentally make a heavy one. (it fires indefinitely if you hold the button)

 

[nathanieljbrill]

I don't think this current design would be used. It sounds like a good way to get parried, unless you've just parried them. What if it was an item that made you perform a light melee with no lag or startup? So you could say Heavy melee light melee shoot real quick instead of Heavy melee shoot.

 

[Rosgath]

I don't think this current design would be used. It sounds like a good way to get parried, unless you've just parried them. What if it was an item that made you perform a light melee with no lag or startup? So you could say Heavy melee light melee shoot real quick instead of Heavy melee shoot.

My understanding is that light melee doesn't stun you if it gets parried, but I might be wrong

 

[nathanieljbrill]

My understanding is that light melee doesn't stun you if it gets parried, but I might be wrong

It does.

 

[Rosgath]

It does.

In that case, I would probably add that you don't get stunned from getting parried while the effect is active (though parrying would still prevent the melee attacks from doing damage). Since they are light melee attacks, but parry still prevents the damage I think it would be a fair trade.

 

[Fey_1312]

In that case, I would probably add that you don't get stunned from getting parried while the effect is active (though parrying would still prevent the melee attacks from doing damage). Since they are light melee attacks, but parry still prevents the damage I think it would be a fair trade.

you can immediately parry again after a successful parry, so you would just spam F to counter this item even if the user had a stun immunity.
IMO the way deadlock melee works currently is fuckin great, heavy melee is a mind-game and a massive risk/reward ESPECIALLY early game.

 

[maxkaibarreto]

Brass knuckles are an animation set in addition to being an item. I like them as an ability. Holding for flurry of blows is still sounds rad though

 

[micbenso66]

I like concepts for T1 weapon activatables because it's a spot that feels like it really needs to be filled. Here's another idea for one.

Item Name: Brass Knuckles
Item Type: Weapon
Cost: 500 Souls(T1)
Stats:
+12% Melee damage
+20% Light Melee speed (Conditional)

Active: (12s Cooldown)
Engage in a flurry of fists! For the next 6 seconds, you cannot perform Heavy Melee attacks. Instead, your Light melee attack speed is increased by 20% and holding the melee button continuously performs Light melee attacks. Killing a creep or securing a soul with a melee attack while this effect is active increases your melee damage by 7 for 30 seconds (stacks up to 5 times).

As others have noted before, the Weapon category T1 lacks an item for melee, despite the fact that melee damage scales with bonus bullet damage. Here I thought I'd throw something in that might be really cool, going on a melee frenzy.

Seems good for camps. this seems bad for fights. As soon as someone sees the flurry they will just parry. But if you can bait it, I imagine the damage of the flurry might be higher than a heavy.

Ide probably use this and die a lot because of it

 

[Rosgath]

Seems good for camps. this seems bad for fights. As soon as someone sees the flurry they will just parry. But if you can bait it, I imagine the damage of the flurry might be higher than a heavy.

Ide probably use this and die a lot because of it

Actually, this gives me some ideas. I'm going to workshop some stuff

 

[Rosgath]

Ok. I worked up a bit of an update to the item along with an upgrade
I think the default item is fine, particularly if you bait out a parry then use it during the cooldown to lay down a beating. Here's the Upgrade


Activating it can be a GREAT way to turn against enemies who like their parry button way too much. The stun duration is .5s shorter than the Parry stun, and the cooldown is just shy of a minute so it's not something that you can just use to break parries every time, but it can be a handy tool if you really need to secure that melee.

I think the biggest potential balancing factors that would need to be considered are the Cooldown for the stun and the stun duration but those would be numbers that would need to be explored in testing.

It lists Hollow Point Ward as a component, but the actual Component is Brass Knuckles.

 

[reythepastel]

(btw, debuff resists reduce the time you are parried for, so maybe that could be incorporated into the design somehow. Maybe instead of immunity to parrys, you get 50% debuff resist while its active.)

 

[Rosgath]

(btw, debuff resists reduce the tiem ur parreid for)

Yup! I'm aware.

Black Belt specifically ONLY reduces the duration of being Stunned from Parries to prevent there from being too much overlap between this and Debuff Reducer

 

[reythepastel]

Yup! I'm aware.

Black Belt specifically ONLY reduces the duration of being Stunned from Parries to prevent there from being too much overlap between this and Debuff Reducer

the problem is melee is already really strong in lane, often countered only by being good at parrying

 

[reythepastel]

oooo wait, maybe if you keep the parry stun immunity but instead it makes you unable to melee and use abilities for 1-2 seconds

 

[Rosgath]

the problem is melee is already really strong in lane, often countered only by being good at parrying

Right.... but on a successful parry you immediately reset the cooldown on your Parry.

If you don't bait the parry first the person is just going to parry you on repeat while you get shot at by their lane mate or they dash away (and because you can't heavy Melee while the effect is active you won't be able to catch them if they parry and dash away).

Melee can be strong in lane, and Brass knuckles doesn't make Parrying bad. It's still a great way to prevent someone from capitalizing on the Brass Knuckles. You still have to get around being Parried, it just gives them an option for doing more damage when you bait the parry out (or do extra damage by building up stacks on creeps)

 

[reythepastel]

Right.... but on a successful parry you immediately reset the cooldown on your Parry.

If you don't bait the parry first the person is just going to parry you on repeat while you get shot at by their lane mate or they dash away (and because you can't heavy Melee while the effect is active you won't be able to catch them if they parry and dash away).

Melee can be strong in lane, and Brass knuckles doesn't make Parrying bad. It's still a great way to prevent someone from capitalizing on the Brass Knuckles. You still have to get around being Parried, it just gives them an option for doing more damage when you bait the parry out (or do extra damage by building up stacks on creeps)

the problem with it is parrying stunlocks you for a short period which can let the other enemy shoot you while ur trying to constantly parry. The other issue is that light melees are not easy to parry when the enemy has unstoppable. another thing is they don't need a heavy melee to catch you, they can just dash jump after you

 

[Rosgath]

the problem with it is parrying stunlocks you for a short period which can let the other enemy shoot you while ur trying to constantly parry. The other issue is that light melees are not easy to parry when the enemy has unstoppable. another thing is they don't need a heavy melee to catch you, they can just dash jump after you

Unstoppable is a 6k Item and will never be seen during the laning phase. That's a completely unreasonable comparison. The person with Brass Knuckles doesn't have unstoppable, just immunity to parry stuns. With the faster light melee attacks, they are also much more likely to take more swings at you giving you more opportunities to parry them and get away.

And while they can try to dash jump after you if you parry them that means that they are committing even harder to a chase after you've already parried them and wasted their time. Not to mention that dash jumping into a light melee after getting parried and dashed away from means they will be out of range of the light melee attacks that Brass Knuckles locks the user into. Without Heavy melee to give them the extra reach, they won't catch you since using a Light melee Slows you down just like how shooting without Fleetfoot does.

You can't say the effect is broken when the counter arguments are to set up a situation where everyone doesn't use equal resources equally. That's an unfair comparison

 

[reythepastel]

Unstoppable is a 6k Item and will never be seen during the laning phase. That's a completely unreasonable comparison. The person with Brass Knuckles doesn't have unstoppable, just immunity to parry stuns. With the faster light melee attacks, they are also much more likely to take more swings at you giving you more opportunities to parry them and get away.

And while they can try to dash jump after you if you parry them that means that they are committing even harder to a chase after you've already parried them and wasted their time. Not to mention that dash jumping into a light melee after getting parried and dashed away from means they will be out of range of the light melee attacks that Brass Knuckles locks the user into. Without Heavy melee to give them the extra reach, they won't catch you since using a Light melee Slows you down just like how shooting without Fleetfoot does.

You can't say the effect is broken when the counter arguments are to set up a situation where everyone doesn't use equal resources equally. That's an unfair comparison

this is all assuming the enemy has perfect parrying. and its not even that, its all perdicitions. you cant react to a light melee, they could just dash jump at you and buffer the light melee by 1 second. Light melees are really strong as is already, its just that nobody uses them as often. And on top of this, you're increasing the speed of them which is a direct increase to melee dps while also allowing the user to keep shooting normally if they are getting parried. I do really like this idea you have, it just seems too strong for a 500 as it is. Maybe at least have it act like the Buffalo Steak Sandvich from TF2 and silence yourself while its active