Being able to put Yamato out of ult with Curse

if you dont know icefrog, you should know that the nerfs were not targetted at what people complain about but frustrating or bloated interactions.

People have been bitching and moaning about pango doom being on the forefront of dota for te past 4years, they got upgraded since they added facets (they did nerf pango but double jump just gives him new power).

in a vaccum getting pretty high protections and infinite ammo on a scatter gun weapon, and she can grapple to be at point blank from 30m away, was pretty silly. i am no good yamato, and i followed a gun build, i would beat some bad players by landing repeated m2's and get beaten by people who know how to play their character, then it wouldnt matter but because i had point blank kinectic and just troll warlord you by never running out od damage while you can't box me. So that's a very clear in the future this could be a problem nerf. them keeping her spirit ratios means they are removing parts they see are not healthy. they are nerfs all things considered but at this point in development i putting in whole new mechanics or removing is more comon to see the point of what they can do over tweaking numbers.
Agreed. Nerfs often target frustrating mechanics, even if the character isn’t 'broken' at the moment. Yamato’s high protections and point-blank damage with a lot of ammo were bound to be problematic long-term. Balancing her now prevents future frustration without making her unplayable.
 
It seems you misunderstood my suggestion. I never said you should be able to Curse Yamato out of her ult once it's active. My point was that debuffs like Curse could be applied during her ult startup, adding a strategic layer without making her overly weak.
Even still that would make her a dead hero.

Her start up is so long that as soon as someone sees it happening, it's going to be an instant curse/silence.

At that point she might as well not even have a 4 ability.

You would just be talking Yamato's ability to use her ult at all.
 
Even still that would make her a dead hero.

Her start up is so long that as soon as someone sees it happening, it's going to be an instant curse/silence.

At that point she might as well not even have a 4 ability.

You would just be talking Yamato's ability to use her ult at all.
I get what you're saying, but making Yamato’s startup vulnerable to debuffs doesn’t mean her ult would become useless. Other characters with long startup abilities (like channeling ultimates) also face similar risks, but they still function. It would just force Yamato players to time their ults better and use it more strategically, rather than as an unstoppable escape
 
I get what you're saying, but making Yamato’s startup vulnerable to debuffs doesn’t mean her ult would become useless. Other characters with long startup abilities (like channeling ultimates) also face similar risks, but they still function. It would just force Yamato players to time their ults better and use it more strategically, rather than as an unstoppable escape
It's currently the only semi defensive option Yamato has, take that away from her, and once again you might as well delete the character.

She is an offensive hero, and already had her offensive capabilities seriously nerfed into the ground.

You allow her ult to be cursed/silences, and you have effectively killed the hero.

There is no other way to put this at this point other than, get good.

Your post/comments read as someone who hasn't learned how to counter, the easily countered Yamato.
 
It's currently the only semi defensive option Yamato has, take that away from her, and once again you might as well delete the character.

She is an offensive hero, and already had her offensive capabilities seriously nerfed into the ground.

You allow her ult to be cursed/silences, and you have effectively killed the hero.

There is no other way to put this at this point other than, get good.

Your post/comments read as someone who hasn't learned how to counter, the easily countered Yamato.
Dismissing this as a 'get good' issue doesn't address the actual balance concern. The point isn't to make Yamato unplayable, but to add meaningful counterplay to a high-impact ability, just like with many other heroes. Making her startup vulnerable doesn’t erase her strengths. it just requires better timing and strategy. Claiming that I ‘haven’t learned to counter her’ doesn't engage with the actual mechanics I’m discussing, it’s a way to avoid addressing the balance issue at hand.
 
If it is Yamato with lots of souls late game, she is just online my dude. She isnt the best early hero unless you snowball hard, you need to continue to farm well with her and bad choices can be really damning. Some heros in this game with be tempo heros, while others will be hard carrys. This isnt overwatch, it is closer to a MOBA then it is a shooter under its "hood". Noway should an item you buy just flat out counter that hero lol. Yamato is only EVER scary when she is in her ultimate...which she has to farm to make good. Even a 0-12 Dynamo can hit a game-winning ultimate for his team. 1 item to counter the heros end-game (when shes actually online) is an absurd suggestion for a MOBA.
 
If it is Yamato with lots of souls late game, she is just online my dude. She isnt the best early hero unless you snowball hard, you need to continue to farm well with her and bad choices can be really damning. Some heros in this game with be tempo heros, while others will be hard carrys. This isnt overwatch, it is closer to a MOBA then it is a shooter under its "hood". Noway should an item you buy just flat out counter that hero lol. Yamato is only EVER scary when she is in her ultimate...which she has to farm to make good. Even a 0-12 Dynamo can hit a game-winning ultimate for his team. 1 item to counter the heros end-game (when shes actually online) is an absurd suggestion for a MOBA.
I get that Yamato is meant to be strong late-game carry after getting a lot of souls, but even in MOBAs, there’s always counterplay to late-game threats. For example, in Dota, heroes like Anti-Mage or Spectre can dominate late game, but they still have counters like silences or crowd control to keep them in check. The idea isn’t to make an item that 'flat out' counters her, but to introduce strategic counterplay during her ultimate, like a disarm or curse. Carries should be strong, but never completely untouchable, there’s always some way to outplay them.
 
I get that Yamato is meant to be strong late-game carry after getting a lot of souls, but even in MOBAs, there’s always counterplay to late-game threats. For example, in Dota, heroes like Anti-Mage or Spectre can dominate late game, but they still have counters like silences or crowd control to keep them in check. The idea isn’t to make an item that 'flat out' counters her, but to introduce strategic counterplay during her ultimate, like a disarm or curse. Carries should be strong, but never completely untouchable, there’s always some way to outplay them.
Strategic counterplay during her ulti: shoot her to kill her later or go away.
Strategic counterplay before her ulti: Silencer or curse and when you see her getting low on health prevent her from going into 4 and she is a sitting duck. If that doesn't work, then hunt her while she is in the ultimate and bring her to 1 hp, so when the ultimate ends, she's dead. If that doesn't work, walk away.
Not every ability needs to be counterable by the same item/strategy. Nor does an item have to work against all ultimates.
 
Strategic counterplay during her ulti: shoot her to kill her later or go away.
Strategic counterplay before her ulti: Silencer or curse and when you see her getting low on health prevent her from going into 4 and she is a sitting duck. If that doesn't work, then hunt her while she is in the ultimate and bring her to 1 hp, so when the ultimate ends, she's dead. If that doesn't work, walk away.
Not every ability needs to be counterable by the same item/strategy. Nor does an item have to work against all ultimates.
I see your point, and I’m not advocating for a universal counter that shuts down all ultimates, just adding depth. Yamato already has weaknesses like being out-ranged or kited. My suggestion would enhance strategic play, allowing debuffs like Curse during the startup of her ult without fully removing her late-game power. It’s about creating windows for counterplay, not making her unplayable. it is starting to feel as if i am repeating the same points over and over again.
 
I see your point, and I’m not advocating for a universal counter that shuts down all ultimates, just adding depth. Yamato already has weaknesses like being out-ranged or kited. My suggestion would enhance strategic play, allowing debuffs like Curse during the startup of her ult without fully removing her late-game power. It’s about creating windows for counterplay, not making her unplayable. it is starting to feel as if i am repeating the same points over and over again.
Currently as she is, with her extremely low dmg output, zero abilities to escape a sticky situation; what you are suggesting would completely kill the hero.
 
Currently as she is, with her extremely low dmg output, zero abilities to escape a sticky situation; what you are suggesting would completely kill the hero.
I get that Yamato’s current kit has its weaknesses, but my suggestion isn’t about making her weaker or ruining her role. Allowing debuffs during her startup would add counterplay options without completely disabling her. It's about giving opponents a tactical opportunity, not killing the character outright. And they can make that window smaller if need be. Again, taking in circles
 
I get that Yamato’s current kit has its weaknesses, but my suggestion isn’t about making her weaker or ruining her role. Allowing debuffs during her startup would add counterplay options without completely disabling her. It's about giving opponents a tactical opportunity, not killing the character outright. And they can make that window smaller if need be. Again, taking in circles
You say your suggestion isn't to make her weaker, yet that is exactly what would be the result of your suggestion.
 
You say your suggestion isn't to make her weaker, yet that is exactly what would be the result of your suggestion.
Introducing counterplay doesn’t inherently mean making a hero weaker, it adds layers to both playing as and against that hero. Many balanced heroes have windows of vulnerability without being weak. Yamato's strength can still be preserved while adding tactical opportunities for both sides.
 
I just think that Yamato ult should be counterable with Curse, I mean it's the most expensive upgrade in the game, yet it does nothing to her during ult, and especially since she can just rush refresher and Duration Extender, it almost guaranteed that every Yamato will just have a period of literal God mode, or at least if we cant put her out of the ult, maybe just be able to curse her normally so she can't attack or use abilities would be cool, or maybe if you use Curse just during her powerup animation where literally nothing else can touch her can put her out of the ability, this would force Yamato players to play their Ult more strategically than just using it as a get out of jail free card every time they get surrounded, where they would usually just press 4, start running since nothing can affect her, and then click refresher and ult again if it isn't enough to run away

Absolutely not. She would be unplayable.
 
Could you explain why?
Okay. She's effectively a worse Shiv and any tankiness you would have on Shiv is instead attributed to a 4 second invulnerability window. Being able to remove that window would kill the hero. Only actually annoying thing about Yamato is her getting to contest rejuv so freely.
 
Okay. She's effectively a worse Shiv and any tankiness you would have on Shiv is instead attributed to a 4 second invulnerability window. Being able to remove that window would kill the hero. Only actually annoying thing about Yamato is her getting to contest rejuv so freely.

But everyone keeps saying that Shiv is too op of a character, he is also in need of nerf, so being a worse shiv is actually a good thing
 
I get that Yamato is meant to be strong late-game carry after getting a lot of souls, but even in MOBAs, there’s always counterplay to late-game threats. For example, in Dota, heroes like Anti-Mage or Spectre can dominate late game, but they still have counters like silences or crowd control to keep them in check. The idea isn’t to make an item that 'flat out' counters her, but to introduce strategic counterplay during her ultimate, like a disarm or curse. Carries should be strong, but never completely untouchable, there’s always some way to outplay them.
Have you played and watched pro dota for the last decade? There have been countless patches that have had end-game carries with no counter, and extremely little counter-play. They would often get banned or picked in the first round. Any hero that has a HARD item counter, where you just use the item, and counter the entire hero.. has only ever been a niche pick. When a team invests their networth and win-condition, into a LATE GAME hero that is HARD COUNTERED by 1 click of an item..that more than one person on your team could buy... they were never meta sorry. Yamato has counter play as is. Build into hero kits (we currently don't have draft mode so I know that makes it uncertain) but also multiple item options for counter-play.. But to straight hard counter her.. Nah. its bad enough heroes like lash and dynamo can easily interrupt a haze or 7ult. You want to give Yamato that experience EVERYGAME just from buying an item. Please god no lol.
 
Have you played and watched pro dota for the last decade? There have been countless patches that have had end-game carries with no counter, and extremely little counter-play. They would often get banned or picked in the first round. Any hero that has a HARD item counter, where you just use the item, and counter the entire hero.. has only ever been a niche pick. When a team invests their networth and win-condition, into a LATE GAME hero that is HARD COUNTERED by 1 click of an item..that more than one person on your team could buy... they were never meta sorry. Yamato has counter play as is. Build into hero kits (we currently don't have draft mode so I know that makes it uncertain) but also multiple item options for counter-play.. But to straight hard counter her.. Nah. its bad enough heroes like lash and dynamo can easily interrupt a haze or 7ult. You want to give Yamato that experience EVERYGAME just from buying an item. Please god no lol.
I’m not advocating for an item that fully negates Yamato’s entire kit, but introducing more counterplay during specific windows, like her ult startup, adds layers of strategy. In many MOBAs, heroes have moments of vulnerability without being completely countered by one item. It’s about balancing risk and reward.
 
I’m not advocating for an item that fully negates Yamato’s entire kit, but introducing more counterplay during specific windows, like her ult startup, adds layers of strategy. In many MOBAs, heroes have moments of vulnerability without being completely countered by one item. It’s about balancing risk and reward.
I don't know, it seems more that you are advocating for Curse to have no weak spot and don't want to risk an earlier activation to prevent Yamato from going into her Ult.
I just think that Yamato ult should be counterable with Curse, I mean it's the most expensive upgrade in the game, yet it does nothing to her during ult,

Also, not every hero needs to have their moments of vulnerability in the same situations (during or at activation of ultimate). Having all heroes have similar or identical windows of vulnerability would only remove aspects of strategy that arise from heroes being different and you yourself needing to for one play against them differently, but also to play as them differently. Yamato can activate her Ultimate in the middle of the enemy team and don't feel like she wasted it. A McGinnes that activates her Ultimate in the middle of the enemy team is a fool due to the minimum range. So why would adding a vulnerability to Yamato's ultimate add more strategic options when it removes the strategic option of the Ultimate as a "free" getaway, thereby removing any strategic advantage of diving the enemy team to disrupt them while at the same time removing the strategic consideration of debuffing her with Silence earlier to ensure she can't escape since you can just interrupt?


(Btw, Curse is not the most expensive item in the game (more like 4th currently))
 
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