Agreed. Nerfs often target frustrating mechanics, even if the character isn’t 'broken' at the moment. Yamato’s high protections and point-blank damage with a lot of ammo were bound to be problematic long-term. Balancing her now prevents future frustration without making her unplayable.
Even still that would make her a dead hero.
I get what you're saying, but making Yamato’s startup vulnerable to debuffs doesn’t mean her ult would become useless. Other characters with long startup abilities (like channeling ultimates) also face similar risks, but they still function. It would just force Yamato players to time their ults better and use it more strategically, rather than as an unstoppable escape
It's currently the only semi defensive option Yamato has, take that away from her, and once again you might as well delete the character.
Dismissing this as a 'get good' issue doesn't address the actual balance concern. The point isn't to make Yamato unplayable, but to add meaningful counterplay to a high-impact ability, just like with many other heroes. Making her startup vulnerable doesn’t erase her strengths. it just requires better timing and strategy. Claiming that I ‘haven’t learned to counter her’ doesn't engage with the actual mechanics I’m discussing, it’s a way to avoid addressing the balance issue at hand.
I get that Yamato is meant to be strong late-game carry after getting a lot of souls, but even in MOBAs, there’s always counterplay to late-game threats. For example, in Dota, heroes like Anti-Mage or Spectre can dominate late game, but they still have counters like silences or crowd control to keep them in check. The idea isn’t to make an item that 'flat out' counters her, but to introduce strategic counterplay during her ultimate, like a disarm or curse. Carries should be strong, but never completely untouchable, there’s always some way to outplay them.
Strategic counterplay during her ulti: shoot her to kill her later or go away.
I see your point, and I’m not advocating for a universal counter that shuts down all ultimates, just adding depth. Yamato already has weaknesses like being out-ranged or kited. My suggestion would enhance strategic play, allowing debuffs like Curse during the startup of her ult without fully removing her late-game power. It’s about creating windows for counterplay, not making her unplayable. it is starting to feel as if i am repeating the same points over and over again.
Currently as she is, with her extremely low dmg output, zero abilities to escape a sticky situation; what you are suggesting would completely kill the hero.
I get that Yamato’s current kit has its weaknesses, but my suggestion isn’t about making her weaker or ruining her role. Allowing debuffs during her startup would add counterplay options without completely disabling her. It's about giving opponents a tactical opportunity, not killing the character outright. And they can make that window smaller if need be. Again, taking in circles
You say your suggestion isn't to make her weaker, yet that is exactly what would be the result of your suggestion.
Introducing counterplay doesn’t inherently mean making a hero weaker, it adds layers to both playing as and against that hero. Many balanced heroes have windows of vulnerability without being weak. Yamato's strength can still be preserved while adding tactical opportunities for both sides.
Could you explain why?
Okay. She's effectively a worse Shiv and any tankiness you would have on Shiv is instead attributed to a 4 second invulnerability window. Being able to remove that window would kill the hero. Only actually annoying thing about Yamato is her getting to contest rejuv so freely.
Have you played and watched pro dota for the last decade? There have been countless patches that have had end-game carries with no counter, and extremely little counter-play. They would often get banned or picked in the first round. Any hero that has a HARD item counter, where you just use the item, and counter the entire hero.. has only ever been a niche pick. When a team invests their networth and win-condition, into a LATE GAME hero that is HARD COUNTERED by 1 click of an item..that more than one person on your team could buy... they were never meta sorry. Yamato has counter play as is. Build into hero kits (we currently don't have draft mode so I know that makes it uncertain) but also multiple item options for counter-play.. But to straight hard counter her.. Nah. its bad enough heroes like lash and dynamo can easily interrupt a haze or 7ult. You want to give Yamato that experience EVERYGAME just from buying an item. Please god no lol.
I’m not advocating for an item that fully negates Yamato’s entire kit, but introducing more counterplay during specific windows, like her ult startup, adds layers of strategy. In many MOBAs, heroes have moments of vulnerability without being completely countered by one item. It’s about balancing risk and reward.
I don't know, it seems more that you are advocating for Curse to have no weak spot and don't want to risk an earlier activation to prevent Yamato from going into her Ult.
