copper tomato
New member
Concept
Bebop takes 50% damage from his own bombs. This would be a big nerf to Bebop, but I don't think it would kill the character (subject to balancing around it) and I think it would address a lot of different issues people have with him and make him more fun to play and more fun to play against.
Reasoning
Complaint 1: Bombs are too effective for too little effort and have no counter-play. With this change, since you need to be in close range to attach a bomb you can no longer blindly spam 2 when near someone and get some "free" damage for it. You now need a plan to get away from the person you attached it to, which synergies well with the upper cut. On the receiving end, you now have some clear counter-play, which is to get in Bebop's face so that he takes a portion of his own bomb damage. This also makes items like spirit armor even more effective against him because if you're taking 25% less bomb damage and he's taking 50% of his own damage, then that gap is reduced to 25%. It also means if you can do something like get close to him and e-shift then you will take no damage and he will take the self-damage, turning the ability fully against him.
Complaint 2: Items like Debuff Remover aren't effective counters because he can just self-bomb. This change makes self-bombing much riskier and something you need to really spec into. If you're doing massive bomb damage, then you will also be almost dead after self-bombing unless you add a lot of spirit resists, the ability to heal quick afterwards, or something like e-shift to avoid the bomb damage. This also makes it harder to pull off and you need to be more thoughtful about how you do it. As mentioned above, it also amplifies how effective other items like e-shift and spirit armor are against him.
Complaint 3: Bebop players can ignore their gun. I actually think this isn't true except for extreme cases, but making bombs more context dependent means you'll need to rely on your gun a lot more if you want reliable damage.
Other reasons I think this would make him a more fun character:
I like playing characters that can have impact somewhat independent of their soul count. I used to play a lot of McGinnis but I wanted to try a character with a completely different play style so I started playing a lot of Bebop and I love it. I think characters like McGinnis, Paradox, and Bebop are what make games like this special because they can completely change the nature of a battle in an instant, which provides a lot of fun dynamism. However, obviously a lot of people hate being hooked and even people who don't mind the hook feel like Bebop does too much damage and doesn't have enough counter play. I sort of disagree with that because I think most people don't realize how useless he is unless he gets a hook and/or uppercut, but I accept that that's how enough people feel that it would be good to address.
Bebop takes 50% damage from his own bombs. This would be a big nerf to Bebop, but I don't think it would kill the character (subject to balancing around it) and I think it would address a lot of different issues people have with him and make him more fun to play and more fun to play against.
Reasoning
Complaint 1: Bombs are too effective for too little effort and have no counter-play. With this change, since you need to be in close range to attach a bomb you can no longer blindly spam 2 when near someone and get some "free" damage for it. You now need a plan to get away from the person you attached it to, which synergies well with the upper cut. On the receiving end, you now have some clear counter-play, which is to get in Bebop's face so that he takes a portion of his own bomb damage. This also makes items like spirit armor even more effective against him because if you're taking 25% less bomb damage and he's taking 50% of his own damage, then that gap is reduced to 25%. It also means if you can do something like get close to him and e-shift then you will take no damage and he will take the self-damage, turning the ability fully against him.
Complaint 2: Items like Debuff Remover aren't effective counters because he can just self-bomb. This change makes self-bombing much riskier and something you need to really spec into. If you're doing massive bomb damage, then you will also be almost dead after self-bombing unless you add a lot of spirit resists, the ability to heal quick afterwards, or something like e-shift to avoid the bomb damage. This also makes it harder to pull off and you need to be more thoughtful about how you do it. As mentioned above, it also amplifies how effective other items like e-shift and spirit armor are against him.
Complaint 3: Bebop players can ignore their gun. I actually think this isn't true except for extreme cases, but making bombs more context dependent means you'll need to rely on your gun a lot more if you want reliable damage.
Other reasons I think this would make him a more fun character:
- Putting bombs on allies is now better than self-bombing, incentivizing team plan or at least thinking about what your team mates are doing.
- There's a whole new cat-and-mouse element where players need to decide whether to chase after Bebop after they get bombed or not. This also allows Bebop player to set up traps by leading chasing players into allies.
- Bebop needs to think about who would be a good bomb target and will be punished for choosing poorly.
- The impact of the hook is almost unchanged. It's still his signature ability and extremely good if you can hit it.
I like playing characters that can have impact somewhat independent of their soul count. I used to play a lot of McGinnis but I wanted to try a character with a completely different play style so I started playing a lot of Bebop and I love it. I think characters like McGinnis, Paradox, and Bebop are what make games like this special because they can completely change the nature of a battle in an instant, which provides a lot of fun dynamism. However, obviously a lot of people hate being hooked and even people who don't mind the hook feel like Bebop does too much damage and doesn't have enough counter play. I sort of disagree with that because I think most people don't realize how useless he is unless he gets a hook and/or uppercut, but I accept that that's how enough people feel that it would be good to address.
