Wide skill range even though we play together all the time

[sinayeganeh]

Happy to DM you our accounts, but me and a friend play a lot together -- almost every game. After this patch, we're getting the "wide skill range" even though our win/loss should be about the same. Are there other factors to the hidden MMR?

Thought I'd report it, i think this is a bug.

 

[McGreggicutty]

Want to second this - my group literally only plays games together and is now being blocked from playing, even ranked. I understand the importance of skill based matchmaking, but hard locking my group from playing together does NOT feel rewarding.

 

[T00NCES]

100% an issue.

I play with one friend. The two of us have played over 200 games together and a handful individually.

We are normally KD positive, we both normally have the most object damage and souls collected on the team.

Yesterday after we read Yoshi's post we were very excited about the matchmaking changes.

We signed on, played a few games, and all of a sudden after about three games last night, got the message we have a wide skill range. Played about 7 more games and all of them were horrendous. Literally unplayable and all losses with horrible teammates. The few we did win were because we were the only ones pushing objectives and trying to coordinate the team.

Is anyone having good matchups in groups of two or more?

 

[chompr99]

boosting, my 24/7 duo and I are getting the same thing

 

[brandon.longoria]

Hi,

My friends and I are having very similar issues, leaving me similarly confused. I understand the system is still very much a work in progress, but I find the wide party skill range notification demoralizing when I play most of my games with these friends and very few solo. I'm not expecting a tell-all for the metrics behind this calculation. Still, I would like to know why the game believes that our team's success is not contingent on the gameplay of everyone but establishes that something about someone's numbers qualifies them as a greater opponent.

 

[wooolfdale]

Unfortunately, the latest update has ruined party matchmaking. My friend and I always play only in parties, we have 200+ hours in deadlock. Today we received a message about a wide skill in matchmaking. And now the games are simply unbearable and unplayable, we are given a player on the team who played 2.3 hours in deadlock, who is against a player who played 120+ hours, without even switching lanes. The most unfair and repulsive games

 

[fkmmarr]

Want to second this - my group literally only plays games together and is now being blocked from playing, even ranked. I understand the importance of skill based matchmaking, but hard locking my group from playing together does NOT feel rewarding.

What do you mean by blocked from playing ranked? Ranked is solo-only. You always will have to queue alone.

 

[cmnowak]

you guys can get into a game? we have a 5 stack that has played almost all our games together and we have "wide skill in matchmaking" YET it will not let us queue as a 5 stack. drop a person can queue manage to get a 6th sure you can queue, but if its a 5 or 3 stack with that message nope you cant queue period. i can understand this with ranked but in a NON ranked game mode its just a middle finger saying sorry you cant play with friends anymore.

 

[T00NCES]

you guys can get into a game? we have a 5 stack that has played almost all our games together and we have "wide skill in matchmaking" YET it will not let us queue as a 5 stack. drop a person can queue manage to get a 6th sure you can queue, but if its a 5 or 3 stack with that message nope you cant queue period. i can understand this with ranked but in a NON ranked game mode its just a middle finger saying sorry you cant play with friends anymore.

I believe the reason they do this is because there will be a sixth person (one person) who is forced into a match with a five stack that has a wide range (aka one or more players learning or getting carried) and that would be unfair to the one person single queueing. Sounds good in practice, but maybe the "range" needs some tuning. I know it does for duo's.

In my case, I have a friend I play exclusively with almost every game. And we generally split roles. So I'm managing lanes and assisting team fights (because noone else will) and he's focused on objective damage (because noone else will) where noone is looking.

Until now it's worked great, and we've managed a 50% to 55% win rate, but every since the update, we get a message about a wide skill range between us two, and seemingly get placed into unwinnable matches where most people on our team don't communicate and don't understand the basic mechanics of the game. Going solo makes the games way more playable, but then I have to play a team game without my teammate.

What's crazy to me is that we generally have good stats and play as a team and together try to rally our team. We think we're equally skilled, and not having any insight into how they measure "skill" offers us no means to resolve this.

 

[cmnowak]

I believe the reason they do this is because there will be a sixth person (one person) who is forced into a match with a five stack that has a wide range (aka one or more players learning or getting carried) and that would be unfair to the one person single queueing. Sounds good in practice, but maybe the "range" needs some tuning. I know it does for duo's.

In my case, I have a friend I play exclusively with almost every game. And we generally split roles. So I'm managing lanes and assisting team fights (because noone else will) and he's focused on objective damage (because noone else will) where noone is looking.

Until now it's worked great, and we've managed a 50% to 55% win rate, but every since the update, we get a message about a wide skill range between us two, and seemingly get placed into unwinnable matches where most people on our team don't communicate and don't understand the basic mechanics of the game. Going solo makes the games way more playable, but then I have to play a team game without my teammate.

What's crazy to me is that we generally have good stats and play as a team and together try to rally our team. We think we're equally skilled, and not having any insight into how they measure "skill" which offers us no means to resolve this.

yeah that is the thing that is weird/bothering me atm. We have maybe a handful of games apart and yet our "ranking" differs so much and in the grand scheme of it all me and one other are around the same "ranking" which is emissary(so middle of the pack) and the rest are a tier under or 2 under max. I could understand if i had a higher rank overall its just frustrating that we legit have played 95% of our games together and now its just nah.

 

[sgtgrimreaper]

My friend and I who have played +200 game together have never had a wide skill range until tonight. How do we go 200 games without being flagged a "wide range team" to Valve puts out a patch and a game or two later we are now flagged as "wide range"?

We are both KD Positive most of the time. We both have the highest Object damage of the team. Our play style are a bit different but they balance/complement each other out and we win games for our team because of it.

Granted this is not a Valve mmr, but tools like deadlocktracker show us both only have an mmr spread of 50 points from each other. How is that a wide range?

Is anyone having good matchups in groups of two or more? Is anyone in a group not getting flag with "wide skill range" because it feels like groups are getting thrown into "wide skill range" when they are not because the match maker is having a hard time balancing pre-made groups of 2 or more players?

100% an issue.

I play with one friend. The two of us have played over 200 games together and a handful individually.

We are normally KD positive, we both normally have the most object damage and souls collected on the team.

Yesterday after we read Yoshi's post we were very excited about the matchmaking changes.

We signed on, played a few games, and all of a sudden after about three games last night, got the message we have a wide skill range. Played about 7 more games and all of them were horrendous. Literally unplayable and all losses with horrible teammates. The few we did win were because we were the only ones pushing objectives and trying to coordinate the team.

Is anyone having good matchups in groups of two or more?

 

[fkmmarr]

My friend and I who have played +200 game together have never had a wide skill range until tonight. How do we go 200 games without being flagged a "wide range team" to Valve puts out a patch and a game or two later we are now flagged as "wide range"?

We are both KD Positive most of the time. We both have the highest Object damage of the team. Our play style are a bit different but they balance/complement each other out and we win games for our team because of it.

Granted this is not a Valve mmr, but tools like deadlocktracker show us both only have an mmr spread of 50 points from each other. How is that a wide range?

Is anyone having good matchups in groups of two or more? Is anyone in a group not getting flag with "wide skill range" because it feels like groups are getting thrown into "wide skill range" when they are not because the match maker is having a hard time balancing pre-made groups of 2 or more players?

Has one of you done ranked mode and the other not done ranked? I only get the flag when I'm in a party with someone who hasn't done ranked mode yet.

 

[sgtgrimreaper]

Has one of you done ranked mode and the other not done ranked? I only get the flag when I'm in a party with someone who hasn't done ranked mode yet.

Yes. I had 5 rank games completed and my friend none. He is now working on them to see if that make a difference. So far, no change. We still have a Wide Skill Range flag.

 

[zephyr]

Yeah, same here. Mostly played together, maybe around 10 solo games outside of that but not a huge amount, tracklock while not super accurate told us we were only 40 mmr apart until they removed the nekoscore yesterday. Yet now we're hit with the wide skill gap problem and the matchmaking is miserable. It also ignores your region selection too, got matched sometimes with the US despite being from the EU.

 

[sgtgrimreaper]

I noticed the same thing with what seemed to be being matched outside of my country. Made the game unplayable at times due to the server ticks favoring the other team.

 

[Flux Reversal]

Basically your explaining a group with a couple of players that are not that good, being carried by their more skilled friends. The system is working as intended I think.

Lets say that one friend, that sux, and only has their high rank due to being carried, queues up alone and ends up in a ranked game with players who deserve their rank and were not carried. That would not be a fair match as the carried players rank does not accurately reflect their true skill. That is not fair to those that actually deserve it.

I personally don't want to be in a game with someone who only got their rank because they were carried.

 

[Cmphp]

Basically your explaining a group with a couple of players that are not that good, being carried by their more skilled friends. The system is working as intended I think.

Lets say that one friend, that sux, and only has their high rank due to being carried, queues up alone and ends up in a ranked game with players who deserve their rank and were not carried. That would not be a fair match as the carried players rank does not accurately reflect their true skill. That is not fair to those that actually deserve it.

I personally don't want to be in a game with someone who only got their rank because they were carried.

All true. Ever notice how none of the people in here made a post in the bad matchmaking thread? It's cause their group were the ones stomping on solo players. They were having a grand old time thinking they were good when their friends were doing all the work.

If you want to see why there's a wide skill range then play ranked and get your rating. I like how not a single person in here has mentioned an actual rating cause that basically proves the matchmaking was broken before.

 

[sgtgrimreaper]

All true. Ever notice how none of the people in here made a post in the bad matchmaking thread? It's cause their group were the ones stomping on solo players. They were having a grand old time thinking they were good when their friends were doing all the work.

If you want to see why there's a wide skill range then play ranked and get your rating. I like how not a single person in here has mentioned an actual rating cause that basically proves the matchmaking was broken before.

I have multiple posts in the bad matchmaking thread. I also have complete rank and awaiting my badge as well as my friend.

Value needs to be more transparent on the MMR, what qualifies as a wide range. It feels to me like they are having a hard time balancing people queuing as parties of 2 thru 5. I think what needs to happen is to have separate queue modes: Single, duel, multi-party (3+). Also, bring out ranked duos.

 

[T00NCES]

I have multiple posts in the bad matchmaking thread. I also have complete rank and awaiting my badge as well as my friend.

Value needs to be more transparent on the MMR, what qualifies as a wide range. It feels to me like they are having a hard time balancing people queuing as parties of 2 thru 5. I think what needs to happen is to have separate queue modes: Single, duel, multi-party (3+). Also, bring out ranked duos.

My group doesn’t have any “carry” players or teammates who underperform. We play as a duo, that is it.

We’ve already posted our feedback in the bad matchmaking thread—this is a new account for me, but Grim (the user above) and I play almost exclusively together, and he has shared several posts expressing our concerns.

As a duo, our main issue is the lack of transparency around what constitutes a “wide skill range.” This feature was implemented on a Friday, right before the weekend, and seems to penalize smaller groups like ours without any clear understanding of how to address it or close the gap.

While we have the occasional rough game (like everyone), we consistently post top stats in most matches—highest objective damage, most kills, and often the fewest deaths. We also split roles: I handle lane management and support team fights (often filling gaps where others won’t), while he focuses on objective damage in overlooked areas. We work hard to rally our team and often secure the win, maintaining about a 50% win rate with this approach, and I’d consider us “equally skilled.”

While minor variations exist, penalizing smaller groups isn’t helpful for teams like ours, who adapt effectively to most matchups.

 

[Cmphp]

Valve has never talked about what factors are used to determine rank. It's never just win/loss and end game stats. You should've noticed that by now. Dota 2 and CS had the same treatment. It's too easy to game the system if it's known.

You're proving Valve correct in the way that you're talking about how you always play in a pair. You're playing every game with a significant advantage and that's finally being taken into account. 6 random solo players don't go into every game with that kind of teamwork. The fact that you're only now complaining about a challenge with bad teammates is how every solo player has been playing for the past +3 months.