T1 and T3 Weapon Actives, Mine Layer and Mine Launcher

[Rosgath]

This is just me, working out some ideas that were on the backburner. Let me know what ya'll think.



The mine launcher lists Hollow Point Wards as a Component, but it's actual component is the Mine Layer. I just didn't know how to customize it using the Deadmock application.

 

[gorilla]

I think it sounds pretty fun! However, the tooltip is very complicated and I think that's a worrying sign when an item is confusing. Also when I think of items, I think of more general, all encompassing game concepts like "silence enemy" or "give someone a shield". Dropping mines sounds like a hero ability more than an item.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

That's a pretty cool idea!

 

[Rosgath]

I think it sounds pretty fun! However, the tooltip is very complicated and I think that's a worrying sign when an item is confusing. Also when I think of items, I think of more general, all encompassing game concepts like "silence enemy" or "give someone a shield". Dropping mines sounds like a hero ability more than an item.

The tooltip is complicated in this version to be excessively clear on how it works. I'm sure it could be simplified should it be implemented (for instance, it probably doesn't need to mention that it has an arming time. It is a mine after all, and those typically are set as traps and have an arming time) but I feel it's important to be extra when presenting ideas like this.

As for an ability, yeah I get that it certainly could be a hero ability. On the other hand, Active Reload, Ethereal Shift, and Cold Front all look like they could also be hero abilities (hell, Ethereal Shift is basically a downgraded version of Calico's Ult) and yet we have them all as items. I think that just because something could be a hero ability shouldn't preclude it form being an Item.

Also, the primary purposes of this item are 2 fold.

1.) It's an item to help players to get away from foes, especially the base item. It would be extra effective if you can funnel enemies into spots that require double jumping to get to in order to make yourself some extra space and get away.

2.) It works as a weapon damage based farming tool. Most Gun/weapon builds rely on items that are, by their nature, Spirit damage based in order to help them farm. Ricochet is pretty much the only Weapon based item that actually works well as a farming tool, and having such an expensive item as the only real weapon option for farming seems like it leaves some design space to be filled.

 

[gorilla]

agree with all your points, having the narrow view of "only this set of mechanics may be covered by items" can reduce creativity. however there is precedent for most items currently in the game existing in dota in some form. Something about the semi permanent nature of mines makes me feel it goes against the spirit of deadlock (particularly in item form, heroes are fair play). Something I think about when imagining new items is their primary function which should be a single thing. What should these mines do. Because a 3k item preventing dashes and doing damage and allowing you to setup ambushes is too many things. Sounds like they should be a farming tool. Then why do they have to be throwable, isn't it better to just have it be a weapon damage scaling farming passive? If they also disable, why will anyone take something like slowing hex? Now we have an aoe disable hex that you can plant in advance. Think about how strong this would be around mid boss. Hope none of this is rude or condescending, just have some time on my hands and browsing all the forum posts I've missed the past few months!

 

[Rosgath]

agree with all your points, having the narrow view of "only this set of mechanics may be covered by items" can reduce creativity. however there is precedent for most items currently in the game existing in dota in some form. Something about the semi permanent nature of mines makes me feel it goes against the spirit of deadlock (particularly in item form, heroes are fair play). Something I think about when imagining new items is their primary function which should be a single thing. What should these mines do. Because a 3k item preventing dashes and doing damage and allowing you to setup ambushes is too many things. Sounds like they should be a farming tool. Then why do they have to be throwable, isn't it better to just have it be a weapon damage scaling farming passive? If they also disable, why will anyone take something like slowing hex? Now we have an aoe disable hex that you can plant in advance. Think about how strong this would be around mid boss. Hope none of this is rude or condescending, just have some time on my hands and browsing all the forum posts I've missed the past few months!

You bring up some valid points, and I will agree that I hadn't considered all of these when I first worked the item up. That said, I don't think the item needs to be reworked from the ground up, mostly just refinement.

RE: Why get Slowing hex when I can get this?

1.) Slowing Hex provides Spirit Lifesteal and is a Spirit item occupying a Spirit Slot.

2.) Slowing Hex is targetted (making it much easier to hit, the mines have an arming delay after you launch them making them a skill shot) which has many advantages to itself.

3.) The mines do NOT silence mobility abilities. Yes, it can slow people down, but it won't stop a Wraith from Teleporting away, or a Calico from using her Leaping Slash or Ult on you. Slowing Hex prevents ALL of those abilities.

4.) Mine Launcher costs 3500 souls, twice as much as Slowing Hex.

The Mine Layer exists as a 500 Item specifically because it's damage is low, but disabling effect of the mines is very handy though most effective early game. Mid-late game most heroes will either have access to items like Warp Stone, or more regular use of their mobility abilities. Therefore, in order for the Dash-locking effect to be worth considering, it needed to be cheap.

The Mine Launcher needed to scale up the damage of the Mine Layer. Doing so to a value that I felt would be useful in a single burst would have made the item too strong, which is why it's damage is pretty low for a 3k Item (Alchemist Fire does something like, 350-400 damage over the duration and has a powerful damage amp rider) but it has multiple charges.

I will probably reduce the Mine duration. 60s is longer than it needs to be. Something like 25s is probably sufficient for farming as well as escaping a chase.

Also, I don't mind some harsh criticism. I would rather someone tell me how things are than sugarcoat it and let me think a situation is better than it is.