"Spectral Sling" and "Giant Killer"

[SnickerPuffs]

Spectral Sling
Tier 1 Vitality Item
(Item icon is an arm in a cast, with a bowstring tied between the shoulder and wrist, forming a rough approximation of a bow. There is an arrow knocked and ready to fire.)

+50 Max Health
+10% ability range

Upon death, gain 4% bullet and spirit lifesteal, up to a max of +20% bullet and spirit lifesteal with 5 stacks.
Upon getting a kill, lose a stack.

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Giant Killer
Tier 3 Spirit Item
(Item icon is a muscular silhouette, similar to the icons for Metal Skin or Return Fire, only distorted to appear like a towering giant viewed from below.)
COMPONENT: Spectral Sling

+120 Max Health

Passive: When a nearby enemy has a large lead (>15k souls), gain +30% weapon damage and reduce nearby enemy Bullet Resist and Spirit Resist by 25%. Killing this enemy grants you 150 bonus souls.

When three or more nearby enemies have a large lead, the passive effects of this item are doubled.

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"Sweep" matches have, seemingly, become very common over the last few months. Since these are the most disheartening and frustrating matches to play, I figured adding a few item to help even the odds could make the situation more bearable for the losing team.

The core pitch-- adding a way for trailing/losing players to make a comeback, or at least not go down without a fight-- seems solid! The actual values and effects will likely have to be HEAVILY reworked, however. I've been contemplating these item concepts for the past few days, but I didn't come up with any solid stats until I sat down to write this post. Please let me know if I'm on to something here, or if this entire idea is dogwater.

 

[Mr.Mindish]

I'm not sure if rewarding deaths would work, but the drawback of losing stacks on getting a kill is an interesting downside. The 10% ability range is pretty crazy for a T1 item unrelated to casting abilities. I'm not experienced enough at the game to know what kind of playstyle it might encourage.
Giant Killer is pretty flawed though. I'm not sure how much the weapon damage bonus will help, since 30% isn't much against someone who likely brought enough Vitality items to make them a tank. Usually the counter there is focus fire from the team and to buy items that counter their specific kit. Reducing their resistances seems good to me.
If you're fighting three people who have +15k souls more then you, unless you dc'd at the start for 15 minutes and your team is somehow ahead, then you've already lost that game, and Giant Killer would only drag it out further. I'm not sure how to feel about punishing people who played well enough to reach that many souls.
I agree that fighting stacked opponents can be a pain and the idea of countering them directly is neat, but I'm not sure how well this would work in game.

 

[SnickerPuffs]

The range increase, and even the item names themselves ('Spectral Sling' and 'Giant Killer'), are references to the myth of David and Goliath. These items are meant to give losing players a fighting chance against their much-stronger opponents, which is why I wanted to make that connection.

I tend to over-extend a lot, especially during the laning phase. Unless I'm playing a long-distance hero, the concept of 'play it safe and don't push unless you have an advantage' rarely crosses my mind, leading to a bulk of my deaths. Giving Spectral Sling a range increase is supposed to be a gentle reminder to the player buying it that they don't need to rush in unless they need to... while also being a boon to reckless dipsticks like myself so we can turn our repeat failures into a positive thing.

GK's proc needing a >15k soul lead *is* overkill, you're absolutely right. Lowering that requirement to >10k, maybe even >5k, should help it feel more achievable.

 

[gibnewitems]

Please let me know if I'm on to something here, or if this entire idea is dogwater.

Rewarding people for dying is a pretty dumb design in general, so yeah it is dogwater. 10% ability range on a tier 1 would also be pretty broken. Arcane surge should've taught everybody that easy to access ability range is as bad as easy to access cooldown reduction.

 

[SnickerPuffs]

I'm of the belief that there are no bad ideas, just bad executions. I've always been a fan of catch-up mechanics, so I'm certain this idea could work.

'Just get good' is blunt but fair advice, but it's not helpful in a genuinely imbalanced match. There's no way in hell that Valve is gonna implement a 'surrender' mechanic, and intentionally throwing a game just makes it worse for the players on your team still putting up a fight, so how can we encourage trailing players to stay engaged in a losing/unbalanced match? How do we enable them to clutch a comeback, or at least go down swinging, instead of just laying down and taking it?

The goal isn't to "reward people for dying", but to help them come back from a rough start, and to even the odds against a far-stronger opponent. These items are intended, first-and-foremost, not to get a lead, but to get even. If you think there's a better way to design an item for that purpose, I'd love to hear it! Genuinely! My original post is just the first draft, I knew that it was rough-and-shoddy when I posted this thread. But that's the point, isn't it? To get feedback on the idea and refine it.

 

[gibnewitems]

I'm of the belief that there are no bad ideas, just bad executions.

A terrible mindset that only leads to pain, misery, and waking up inside a gas station bathroom at 4 am with your wallet missing.

Jokes aside, even if there's a need for more comeback mechanics (an opinion that's definitely not universal within the player base), it should not be the item system's job to balance out games. It's the matchmaker's job to create fair games.

The goal isn't to "reward people for dying"

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This item absolutely would reward dying, regardless of you intent. While there are existing items that are more desirable in unfavored matchups like healing rite and extra regen those don't straight up reward you for dying and playing suboptimally, they just help to stem the bleeding. Those actually help facilitate comebacks from a rough lane. They even have their usefulness in lanes that are going swimmingly, unlike your concept that would be useless if you're even, let alone ahead.

If you think there's a better way to design an item for that purpose, I'd love to hear it! Genuinely! My original post is just the first draft, I knew that it was rough-and-shoddy when I posted this thread. But that's the point, isn't it? To get feedback on the idea and refine it.

100% agreed. You've already gotten two responses and 45 views. That's a big amount of traction for these forums. The two who have even bothered to type out a response have been negative so far. Make that of what you will.