Does this line not literally refer to his ult? I mean, he's gotta get above everyone to do real damage with his ult. Storm's aren't typically on ground level.
But dumb grammar "um actually"s aside on my part, I agree that it should focus more on damage radius rather than support ult, which was my ultimate point. I have no qualms with seven's ult being changed, my whole thing was really just the shield aspect and the idea of him literally charging the enemy team
Yeah the latter half of the description definitely refers to his ult, I was just pointing out how it says "rolls into the fight" which implies he gets in the fray once someone is sectioned off. I viewed that as at odds with what you were seemingly saying about him being a pretty much solely distance based character, that being said, I think I might have been looking at the description too literally.
Either way, the idea of him having a method of integrated survivability other than his scalable move speed such as this still seems like it would fit his kit really well, not just from a functional viewpoint but also a thematic one, that's obviously subjective though.
If you would like the devs to see this, it would do a lot better in the Seven feedback forum. Only devs see those, and sometimes even reply. I've had two suggestions posted in those forums implemented.
If you would like the devs to see this, it would do a lot better in the Seven feedback forum. Only devs see those, and sometimes even reply. I've had two suggestions posted in those forums implemented.
This is just warden's ultimate + haze ultimate but worse and on a really big cooldown(and teammates get bullet dodge too)
Warden: "deal damage to guys near me" + Haze: "dodge bullets".
I like the concept of making Seven tankier during his ultimate but copying and stitching two other character's ultimate abilities is not the way to do it
This is just warden's ultimate + haze ultimate but worse and on a really big cooldown(and teammates get bullet dodge too)
Warden: "deal damage to guys near me" + Haze: "dodge bullets".
I like the concept of making Seven tankier during his ultimate but copying and stitching two other character's ultimate abilities is not the way to do it
Yeah dude this is also basically kelvin ult since it helps with sustain in a radius!! Also on a side note, mirage nado is basically haze ult because they both give bullet evasion!!!!! This is a really dumb take, saying that an ability can't be like any other in any aspect is incredibly limiting for no reason and on top of that is already broken multiple times within the current state of the game.
Yeah dude this is also basically kelvin ult since it helps with sustain in a radius!! Also on a side note, mirage nado is basically haze ult because they both give bullet evasion!!!!! This is a really dumb take, saying that an ability can't be like any other in any aspect is incredibly limiting for no reason and on top of that is already broken multiple times within the current state of the game.
Yeah, you stitched together multiple abilities, probably on accident, and didn't realize it until I just pointed it out.
Seperate but equally relevant point:
Why does a mid to late game hypercarry want an ultimate that he can't use for 90% of the match?
Seven's current ult lets him secure big zones of space that his team can use to safely push, secure urns, secure mid, punish bad engages, secure kills, stat-check win fights in the midgame, and farm camps due to the low cooldown.
Why would anyone trade that for your mix of:
+ Warden's 2nd ability "gain spirit shield, gain movespeed"
+ Haze ultimate T3 = gain bullet evasion
+Torment pulse
+kelvin ult sustain
Yeah, you stitched together multiple abilities, probably on accident, and didn't realize it until I just pointed it out.
Seperate but equally relevant point:
Why does a mid to late game hypercarry want an ultimate that he can't use for 90% of the match?
Seven's current ult lets him secure big zones of space that his team can use to safely push, secure urns, secure mid, punish bad engages, secure kills, stat-check win fights in the midgame, and farm camps due to the low cooldown.
Why would anyone trade that for your mix of:
+ Warden's 2nd ability "gain spirit shield, gain movespeed"
+ Haze ultimate T3 = gain bullet evasion
+Torment pulse
+kelvin ult sustain
Did you even read the entire post or are you going to put out these points without first reading mine. If you didn't, then do that, if you did, read it again and play the game some more because when was the last time a seven ult actually did something worthwhile in your games, the ult is a joke. You could also say, "then just buff it", but the current ult is a classic case of low elo stomper and high elo trash, buffing it is not as simple as upping the damage so people can't face tank it.
Did you even read the entire post or are you going to put out these points without first reading mine. If you didn't, then do that, if you did, read it again and play the game some more because when was the last time a seven ult actually did something worthwhile in your games, the ult is a joke. You could also say, "then just buff it", but the current ult is a classic case of low elo stomper and high elo trash, buffing it is not as simple as upping the damage so people can't face tank it.
I read the entire post but i'll be honest, your points weren't very concise and I didn't have the time or energy to properly break down each point before or after I went to my job. So since I have a few hours free, i'll go and do that now.
THERE WILL BE THINGS I LEFT OUT SO IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS PLEASE ASK
Before I actually explain the reworked ult, I wanted to explain why I want a rework in the first place instead of just advocating to give it some buffs. I play a lot of Seven and over my time with him I've noticed that he has 3 distinct issues that can potentially all be solved via his 4, consisting of his ult being weak, his general reliance on late game strength, and his lack of build variety.
Ult: There is A LOT to say about Seven's ult, but to put it simply for the past 2 months or so the ability has been terrible (unless you're a smurf noob stomper), the only real use it has had is for farming, sometimes pit, and early game melee baits. It would not be an exaggeration to say that he had the worst ult in the game, from the 3k power spike up till the endgame. Thankfully the patch on 10/24/24 improved its spread rate by 80% as well as its radius by +5m, which certainly made the ability more usable. That being said, this buff did not fix the main issue at hand, you are a sitting duck while ulting which makes it really easy for people to abuse you with abilities/items and shoot you while peaking around cover. This results in Seven's 4 not being used in fights as an area denial but rather as a burst "area push back" if even that, which in the end makes the ability not have that much impact, especially for an ultimate. There are fixes possible to help his 4, but, and this is entirely subjective, half of Seven's entire thing is becoming an f1 car and although his ult is imo the coolest in the game, standing like a doll in midair is not hype.
Late Game Strength: Seven is much stronger the longer the game goes on, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone; this primarily stems from his insane ability to flash farm and his synergy with more costly items. However, while Seven is strong in the late-game he is fairly weak in the early and mid games, specifically between the 3k powerspike to ~25k (give or take). I believe this bad presence early on is mostly due to his ult not being up to snuff and not having much impact. Overall, this lack of presence early on and almost obsessive focus on his late game leads to Seven being played very one dimensionally to where he simply does the same thing over and over every game, and although I personally enjoy it, I don't believe it's what's best for the character.
Lack of Varying Builds: Pretty much every single Seven build is the same. There's slight variations, but they all stem from the same general build principle, you build his spirit until you can hold w. You're going melee Seven? trolling, going support Seven? trolling, rushing double stun? mid (rip my beloved). Pretty much every single build is the same and again, although I personally like how Seven builds his kit, I still believe he should have the option to go a different route like literally every single other character in the game, yes including Haze (kinda).
There was a lot more I could say about all three of those points but I just wanted to get my general ideas out of the way, and I didn't want to make it even longer. And so with further ado, here's the rework:
Before you go screeching in the replies (assuming this post even gets any), I would first like to explain my reasoning behind this.
- This concept can certainly be tweaked (I battled with a few ideas that I will talk about later), but I wanted to treat this more as a brain"storm" experiment.
- The general idea that I was going for was to give Seven a survivability ability that would also make it so that he could have an option to build his kit differently than he usually does. At least in that regard, I think I succeeded.
How this build works:
- You effectively have 2 different ways to play Seven with this build, you either keep running your opponents down as standard Seven, or you can now go hard support.
-Problem 1:
Seven isn't a "run your opponents down" character. He has nothing in his kit to support that, other than his ultimate; which you are replacing.
-Problem 2:
Going "hard support" would make seven almost useless in every other way until well over 40,000 souls due to the builds required and the boons required to make a support seven work with this ultimate.
-This ultimate is Lash and Dynamo food. The entire team becomes a target for them, Bebop, Haze, Even Mcguinnes's awful ult, etc.
This isn't necessarily "weak" or "strong" but in the current iteration it's bad design.
- As you may have noticed, something weird is going on at the top, the radius has negative spirit scaling, no this is not a typo. My idea behind this was that as you build spirit, this would make it so that you are reducing the radius, thus playing in a more selfish manner, but you could instead forgo some of your offensive power that will primarily come from spirit and lean more into a support role with rescue beam, healing nova, and items of that like.
- Honestly, I'm not sure if negative spirit scaling would really work for Seven, but when I thought of it I liked it so much that I included in this. In all honesty, this kind of scaling would be best baked into a new character's kit, but here we are.
you were correct that negative spirit scaling doesn't work. It's a unique idea, but not one worth considering for seven. If you deleted the spirit scaling on range and just had this ult with only damage and bullet evasion scaling with spirit, that would be more unique and effective and would allow for more interesting build choices that already fit into Seven's kit.
- The reason I added more movement speed to the ult despite Seven already having so much is because of how much of a useful tool it is, esspecially when running people down like a freight train and trying to get to your allies as a support.
This version of an ultimate also has negative synergy with items that Seven *wants* to build, which is especially a problem when you keep putting in "running people down like a freight train" when Seven's whole kit has never been about being a frontliner who people want to actively avoid because of his damage.
Seven is effective because he's AOE spirit damage on a really big stick. Depending on team composition, seven can pivot his spirit damage to gun damage and still be effective at his job of controlling big areas of space(with damage).
He's not inherently tanky, he's not inherently very scary in his damage, he needs to build spirit to do his AOE electric Voodoo to murder the enemy team, when he's able to get a pick or force enemies away from an area.
"Trying to get your allies as a support" can already be done. just pick up a Rescue beam.
- I did consider swapping out the movement speed bonus with movement slow reduction (like from enduring speed), but I figured I liked this better since it would also potentially allow Seven to get out of dodge quicker in certain situations.
"allow seven to get out of dodge quicker"
I'm going to assume you meant "allow seven to get out of dangerous situations quicker".
If all you wanted in a character's kit was a "get out of jail free" button, you can just buy magic carpet. The price even went down to 6K souls this patch.
Now more specifically, what situations would this ultimate *actually* get seven out of dangerous situations quicker? 2 M/s is just a Rapid Rounds + Sprint Boots (well actually even less than both of those because sprint boots gives 1.5 M/s but pretend it just gives 1). Tier 1 is giving seven 4 M/s when he ults.
Okay so you upgraded from 1000 souls worth of movement speed to 6,500 (assuming you add withering whip, rescue beam and add enduring speed movement speed).
Yeah, having 9.6 M/s movement speed is quite fast, but that wouldn't stop Slowing hex or cold front from making seven a sitting duck, especially if he's supposed to "run people down like a freight train". Well that freight train would get stopped really quick by items that a lot of characters already put in their builds, and/or counter multiple characters and would only serve to *ADD* seven to the number of characters countered by a 1,250 item.
- I did not envision this ult zapping all kinds of projectiles including abilities like gray talon's arrow and items such as decay since giving everyone in your radius bullet evasion is already insane enough.
- I believe I should clarify what exactly the third perk would do. At base level the radius has a negative spirit scaling of -0.05, meaning that at a spirit level of 200 the radius would be a total of 0, the ult would only affect you. With the third perk's improved spirit scaling, that -0.05 would instead turn into something like -0.03, meaning you would have a base radius of 4 instead of 0.
If the ultimate *did* zap all kinds of projectiles, it would be significantly better and still have more counterplay than Dynamo ult currently has. Heck, just give it the same treatment as current Seven ult. Give Seven a ton of Spirit and bullet resist during the ultimate IN ADDITION to the bullet evasion. If you *really* wanted(for whatever reason) to make Seven into some kind of "walk in and everyone be scared of me) character with this ultimate, that would be how you do it.
Cause synergy would sprout up between Torment pulse(which currently is obviously nigh-useless on seven), Mystic slow, and a few more items, given that Seven had a lot of spirit and bullet resist in addition to the bullet evasion. Doing that would make him almost completely unkillable, Akin to a certain lovable green goo guy.
- The healing amplification on the third perk is what I am most unsure about in this ability, I figured I could have added a leach effect, healing duplication, something to do with healing based off of bullets zapped, etc. but the perfect answer alluded me for the brief period I spent thinking about it; so I went with the simple filler option in the end, healing amp.
The healing amp is tacked on and unnecessary. Especially because the T2 was 45 DPS. A base damage 95 DPS that scales upward RAPIDLY in damage with Spirit scaling, then you want to tack on a healing amp on top because "why not make it leech health?".
That would be overpowered in a non-interactive way.
- The main issue that I had with this ult rework is that a support option on Seven would be something coming out of left field, but I figured it could go so well with a sustain focused ability that's also an ultimate and be really fun. If I were to strip the ability of its support option however, I would have most likely given it spirit resist in a perk instead of healing amp as well as taken away the radius.
The main issue I have with this ult rework is that I made concise points that directly showed the problem with this ultimate using simple comparisons of how the elements in this ultimate aren't unique enough to consider an entire rework, especially since the elements used are either worse versions of other character's moves or are inherent balance design problems that stem from Dr.Frankenstein-ing a lot of abilities together.
experiment.