Return Fire should build into Metal Skin

[Tavish]

I think it would be pretty cool if Metal Skin was built from Return Fire. They both serve much of the same purpose of being activated when the enemy is gunning you down and separated I find both items to be rather weak, namely because Return Fire doesn't deal a whole lot of damage if the enemy has Bullet Lifesteal.

That's why I think it would be interesting if Metal Skin was made from Return Fire ultimately increasing its cost to 4250 souls, but in turn saving you an item slot, having an added active component and since the enemy can't deal bullet damage to you, unable to lifesteal off attacks.

Return Fire would functionally remain the same, but Metal Skin would look like this instead:

Return Fire (For reference)
1250 Souls
+125 Health
+7 Spirit Power
+7% Fire Rate

Old Metal Skin
3000 Souls
+125 Health
+8 Spirit Power
+8% Fire Rate

New Metal Skin
4250 Souls
+150 Health
+10 Spirit Power
+10% Fire Rate

Active: Become immune to bullets and melee attacks and automatically fire a bullet towards any attacker who hits you with their abilities or weapon.
Cooldown: 25 seconds
Duration: 3.5 seconds


The caviat is that with Metal Skin added, Return Fire has its duration reduced, but maybe that can be circumvented by having the returning fire component last a little longer than the skin component. I would love to hear what you think of this, and whether you think this would be too powerful or ruin Metal Skin as it is.

 

[technicalwaffle]

I like this idea! The two items are a perfect marriage 99% of the time, and it always felt weird having to buy some odd combination of heal cut to get any value out of return fire. I think keeping return fire the same duration and having metal skin on the first 3.5 seconds makes sense, and it's a nice tradeoff if you do buy into metal skin since you're now increasing the total cooldown of the item to 25 seconds versus only return fire's 21.

 

[Sir Gamer]

Interesting idea, but what if I need prolonged protection provided by chaining the two items? That's whopping 10 seconds of protection and 250 hp. Not all characters are squishies, you know. Tanky Abrams, >100% spirit-leeching Shiv, spirit-powered Lady Gheist, healing-boosted tethering Ivy, anyone with inhibitor, etc.

Furthermore, the items taking 2 slots is part of their balance. Using them together is a guaranteed duel win. Collapsing that power into a single slot will be gross OP and a complete no-brainer for many characters. Free slots are very expensive in the mid-to-late game and beyond, so that's a T4 item if we want to be honest.

I think that Return File should be boosted. It's a good item if you want to trade health for damage. Metal Skin, on the other hand, is better when you desperately want to survive. These are very different use cases, merging them will make the game shallower.

 

[Deadly Vanity]

That would just be to op to have in 1 item slot IMO even as a t4

Mb for bump on old thread, just noticed

 

[Ragnaman]

Return fire shouldnt just outright kill anyone who shoots at you, would be too OP.
I like the idea that metal skin combines with return fire tho.

OP or not, the game could use more tank items, im tired of games being decided by who has the fattest wraith or haze. Sure theres also a fat shiv behind the corner, but he got finally nerfed like he should have.

Slots shmots, look at dota, many items combine and combine and combine, to utilise the limited number of slots, ofc deadlock has more slots, but often games dont last so long that you could afford everything. Specialisation into roles might be fun, i say why not have OP items that turn you into tank role.
There are MANY items for DPS role, so many it makes me sick. The tankiest you can get is on a THICC ginnis who stands in her heal aoe, but thats about that, you still die in seconds vs these DPS item stacks.

 

[jautja]

I'd like to merge them but there's a big problem. The metal skin marks itself very well, by look and sound, and so players stop shooting. And Return fire supposes firing and in experience players ignore the activation and keep firing. I.e. a direct conflict of interaction.
The conclusion is that this improvement yes will save the metal skin, but in many ways will completely kill Return fire.

 

[gibnewitems]

Both return fire and metal skin are already fine on their own. Why do we need to hurt gun users even more?