Opinion - Should Macros be banned?

[Spektrum]

As the title says.

What is your opinion on macros in-game and what would you say, should they stay and force people to adapt to it and use macros themselves or should it be banned in matches?

Opinion:
My own opinion is that any kind of macro that can chain multiple abilities and items together for fast activation takes away a lot of the mechanical gameplay of the game and gives an unfair advantage to those who do not play the game with macros.

I personally see it as cheating. Having a Bebop hook me, plant a bomb, echo shard, uppercut me and plant another bomb in under 3 seconds by pressing "G" on your keyboard defeats the games purpose for me. Now if you did it without a macro fine by me, but that little delay or human error that could come from doing it yourself is might just be enough time to save yourself.

They have banned macros in CS2 and Dota2. I sure hope they do the same for Deadlock as well so everyone can have a fair advantage.

I am somehow hoping that all the "unknown" bans I see on the forum are caused by using macros in-game since they aren't giving us a ban reason it could be likely that. Hoping it is, kinda know it's not but still. Here's to hoping!

What is you opinion on this?

 

[Tavish]

-You can make a macro for perfect reload every time with Active Reload.
-You can make a macro for dash jumping without error.
-You can make a macro for timing a knockdown with your crowd control abilities for max duration.

It is generally speaking unfair behavior in my opinion. But with that said, it doesn't accomplish much more than what you already can do. If anything, using macros generally takes away some of the fun of activating abilities in correct successsion.

I'm mixed on banning it, partly because it's not that intrusive compared to conventional cheats and partly because it can be difficult to determine when people use macros. The window for succesfully dash jumping could be increased, to make it easier to perform. Things like that would further reduce the impact of macros.

 

[Spektrum]

-You can make a macro for perfect reload every time with Active Reload.
-You can make a macro for dash jumping without error.
-You can make a macro for timing a knockdown with your crowd control abilities for max duration.

It is generally speaking unfair behavior in my opinion. But with that said, it doesn't accomplish much more than what you already can do. If anything, using macros generally takes away some of the fun of activating abilities in correct successsion.

I'm mixed on banning it, partly because it's not that intrusive compared to conventional cheats and partly because it can be difficult to determine when people use macros. The window for succesfully dash jumping could be increased, to make it easier to perform. Things like that would further reduce the impact of macros.

Macros might not be as intrusive as normal cheats like aimbots or wallhacks, but they do fundamentally alter the mechanics of the game in a way that breaks the skill gap. Macros, even for seemingly small things like dash jumping or perfect reloads, minimize the opportunity for human error, which is what the game’s design takes into account. Precision is meant to be part of the challenge in my opinion, and when macros automate this, they create an uneven playing field, even if the advantage isn't as obvious.

While it may be hard to detect macros being used, it’s not impossible. Games already have systems that can flag repetitive inputs that occur inhumanly fast or and fail free precision. Even though macro usage can fly under the radar in some scenarios, better detection methods is preferable to just letting them slide. I am sure Valve already got such system in place honestly.

Still, I think it’s critical to maintain a level playing field for all players. If macros remain, it indirectly forces everyone else to adopt them or face some competitive disadvantage. This slaps all over the fairness of the game. If a player spends countless hours mastering their timing and execution, they shouldn’t lose to someone who presses a single button to achieve the same thing.

But yea, it's just my opinion on it. Fair game should be Fair for all

 

[acidente]

I think yes they should be banned, but how to do it without being unfair?

 

[Spektrum]

I think yes they should be banned, but how to do it without being unfair?

Most of the macros are being made through their autoexec.cfg file and the console. So just removing the function all together is probably the fastest and easiest way.

 

[acidente]

I remember in dota 2 some people using macros for meepo. Which made the hero so much easier to play and combo. If meepo was that easier to play and it was permitted why not just dumb down the hero.

 

[Forlorn88]

How does one ban macros when they can't even ban the rampant cheating with wallhacks and aimbots?

You can make macros through autohotkey and keyboard software. Trying to stop macros seems impossible

 

[Feralun]

I remember in dota 2 some people using macros for meepo. Which made the hero so much easier to play and combo. If meepo was that easier to play and it was permitted why not just dumb down the hero.

I mean they literally did dumb down meepo

you can now alt (or strg) poof to poof to the meepo with all other meepos.
Basically what the macros did back then. But yeah, Macros are forbidden in Dota.

 

[Feralun]

How does one ban macros when they can't even ban the rampant cheating with wallhacks and aimbots?

You can make macros through autohotkey and keyboard software. Trying to stop macros seems impossible

Banning does not particular mean, stopping people of using them.
Banning could also means, (perma)Ban if you use them.

So yes, if its not allowed and you get caught, and most macros are really dumb, so you can check the log and get information about timings, if they are inhumane, or if they are exactly the same every time, you are using a macro and you would get a ban.
(Happens in a Pro match at Dota if I remember correctly)

 

[Sarus]

if they did it for dota 2, they should probably do it here

 

[xhdx]

100% macros/aliases should be banned. sets an unfair precedent if they are allowed to stay.

 

[sniperfox.gvc]

FYI macros aren't really detectable / banable.

For example if you have Logitech G Hub, go to profiles, create lua script then do something like this:

PressKey("shift")
Sleep(math.random(1, 10))
ReleaseKey("shift")
Sleep(math.random(100, 105))
PressKey("space")
Sleep(math.random(1, 10))
ReleaseKey("space")

(Assuming 100ms is the exact right time to wait after shift before space for a flawless dash jump, I don't know what it actually is).

This macro isn't program detectable, because everyone with a gaming Logitech Keyboard or Mouse has this app installed, and it's not heuristically detectable because there's random variance involved. This is the same way anti-recoil scripts work. Almost every gaming hardware company has something similar and the game can't tell it apart from actual input.

 

[xhdx]

True, macros being banned would rely almost solely on detection, which can be tough. Aliases on the other hand can easily just be disabled which I think should happen.

 

[Feralun]

FYI macros aren't really detectable / banable.

For example if you have Logitech G Hub, go to profiles, create lua script then do something like this:

PressKey("shift")
Sleep(math.random(1, 10))
ReleaseKey("shift")
Sleep(math.random(100, 105))
PressKey("space")
Sleep(math.random(1, 10))
ReleaseKey("space")

(Assuming 100ms is the exact right time to wait after shift before space for a flawless dash jump, I don't know what it actually is).

This macro isn't program detectable, because everyone with a gaming Logitech Keyboard or Mouse has this app installed, and it's not heuristically detectable because there's random variance involved. This is the same way anti-recoil scripts work. Almost every gaming hardware company has something similar and the game can't tell it apart from actual input.

yes and no,

in this case, you entered a sleep into this, wich makes it harder, but not impossible.
generally, yes it really hard to detect, but like I already posted, timings are the key, if you react inhuman, every time than this could be suspicious but not impossible.

Like I said, its really hard to detect, but most people will not think of the sleep function anyway, I mean besided the people who read your post

 

[Aimee]

The first step is taking ability and item chaining into account in game design.
If you cant chain things and get crazy results, then people will not use macro and cheating nearly as much.

Bebop is a great example, where players use macro or even cheat code in order to trigger multiple items on top of ability chaining. Sure its funny for a video on the internet, maybe even fun for the player using it for 2-3 games. But after that it ruins the replayability of the game, since noone is actualy playing anymore.

After that they can look towards banning things that give unfair advantages like macro, but i dont think it should be priority.

Haze is a massive issue if you get a few items, since its aimbot build into a character itself. But i doubt they will remove Haze from the game, so balance is probably not that serious in this game. Or they still have to get around to actual balancing things properly, who knows. With a game like this, there will always be a way to abuse something, and if the developers want balance in the game to some extend they will have to look out for those things as they happen and adjust it.

 

[Spektrum]

The first step is taking ability and item chaining into account in game design.
If you cant chain things and get crazy results, then people will not use macro and cheating nearly as much.

Bebop is a great example, where players use macro or even cheat code in order to trigger multiple items on top of ability chaining. Sure its funny for a video on the internet, maybe even fun for the player using it for 2-3 games. But after that it ruins the replayability of the game, since noone is actualy playing anymore.

After that they can look towards banning things that give unfair advantages like macro, but i dont think it should be priority.

Haze is a massive issue if you get a few items, since its aimbot build into a character itself. But i doubt they will remove Haze from the game, so balance is probably not that serious in this game. Or they still have to get around to actual balancing things properly, who knows. With a game like this, there will always be a way to abuse something, and if the developers want balance in the game to some extend they will have to look out for those things as they happen and adjust it.

Haze is basically just hold LMB to win. Press 4 to be annoying. But again, her having a macro that enables her to activate all her items in a fashionable order in less that 5ms then popping her 4 just defeats any purpose of human error imo.
It would probably be hard to detect and yet also easier to detect than other things. I do not think it should be priority now since we are still early in development but at some point I think it should be a punished if you do use macros if caught using them.

 

[Feralun]

Haze is basically just hold LMB to win. Press 4 to be annoying. But again, her having a macro that enables her to activate all her items in a fashionable order in less that 5ms then popping her 4 just defeats any purpose of human error imo.
It would probably be hard to detect and yet also easier to detect than other things. I do not think it should be priority now since we are still early in development but at some point I think it should be a punished if you do use macros if caught using them.

yes basically this.

I dont know if people need a disclaimer to not use macros at all. But in the end, you cannot really block them, but you can punish it.

For me, as a DotA player, its normal that macros are not allowed, so its kinda a no brainer, they will be people who will find ways, and also abuses for macros but most of them will not use them.

Detection, and punishment will come for sure, I see macro usage on the same level as cheating, so there might be bans already.

 

[Lagaum]

Macros should be banned

 

[Lady Briar]

I don't disagree with anything people are saying here, but just to add an important perspective: I'm disabled. In a lot of games I use macros, not for any skill advantage, but just to do something that comes normally and naturally to the average player.

In this game, I haven't used any. But I had considered making a macro for moving forward a toggle, because holding forward as much as I do hurts my hands so badly. I wish I was kidding, but yeah, I hold forward so much it causes me a lot of pain. A macro that just makes it into a toggle so I have to tap it on and off doesn't give me any kind of tactical advantage, but it does help me just... play. Normally.

As another example, I know this game has a crouch slide ability. I have yet to figure out the best way to set up my keybindings to do this, because I can't press the default keys to do it normally. A way for me to fix this one, too, could possibly be a macro if the key rebinding isn't enough. /shrug Things I've thought about, but haven't done anything about yet.

In no way do I disagree with the sentiments expressed here. Macro'ing skills for an inhuman advantage is absolutely trash, and people being caught doing it should absolutely face repercussions. But banning all macros universally inherently becomes an accessibility issue, so this topic does have nuance. That's all I wanted to add!

 

[Spektrum]

I don't disagree with anything people are saying here, but just to add an important perspective: I'm disabled. In a lot of games I use macros, not for any skill advantage, but just to do something that comes normally and naturally to the average player.

In this game, I haven't used any. But I had considered making a macro for moving forward a toggle, because holding forward as much as I do hurts my hands so badly. I wish I was kidding, but yeah, I hold forward so much it causes me a lot of pain. A macro that just makes it into a toggle so I have to tap it on and off doesn't give me any kind of tactical advantage, but it does help me just... play. Normally.

As another example, I know this game has a crouch slide ability. I have yet to figure out the best way to set up my keybindings to do this, because I can't press the default keys to do it normally. A way for me to fix this one, too, could possibly be a macro if the key rebinding isn't enough. /shrug Things I've thought about, but haven't done anything about yet.

In no way do I disagree with the sentiments expressed here. Macro'ing skills for an inhuman advantage is absolutely trash, and people being caught doing it should absolutely face repercussions. But banning all macros universally inherently becomes an accessibility issue, so this topic does have nuance. That's all I wanted to add!

Honestly, this is one of the few cases where using macros would be just alright so you can enjoy the game at the same "skill level" (No offense at all) as us, and the same phase. Here it's used more as a tool for you to actually be able to compete at some points in the game.

Other points is more of people who doesn't have a disability exploit this for even more advantage over others. Unfortunately I couldn't see a way Valve enforcing any rules against it where some people might be spared.

But all your points are valid for your perspective and I completely understand and respect that. Unfortunately those system are just going to be exploited by a lot of people which in the end is going to make it miserable for you as well.

I just want the game to be fair for all and I mean everyone.