Mystic Reverb doing more damage than triggering ability
- Thread starter thatoneguy5150
- Start date
maybe the escalating exposure has accumulated several times and that's why such damage
thatoneguy5150
New member
The whole fight was only a few seconds, I don't believe I was hit more than once. Tried to check on the replay, but it's not ready for download yet. Regardless, Escalating exposure gives a max damage amp of 80% and Mystic Reverb only does 45% of the inciting ability's damage. It still shouldn't be able to deal more damage than the triggering ability. My assumption is that it has to do with the way Yamato's Power Slash charges up, such as MR proccing as if it where fully charged regardless of how long it actually was or something. Also I'm pretty sure the additional damage taken from EE is tracked separately, hence its appearance on the recap.
Hmm maybe, I cant make fully sense of the numbers.
700 on power slash most likely is a full charge.
EE only stacks every 0.7s or so.
Wasnt there a bug or somethhing that would proc reverb twice if it was a killing blow? Not sure if fixed, but that could possibly also be an explenation.
700 on power slash most likely is a full charge.
EE only stacks every 0.7s or so.
Wasnt there a bug or somethhing that would proc reverb twice if it was a killing blow? Not sure if fixed, but that could possibly also be an explenation.
This isn't a bug. You're not understanding how escalating exposure works and how it interacts with spirit armour.
For more info see: https://deadlocked.wiki/Damage_Resistance
Escalating exposure has two components; minus spirit resist and spirit damage amp. Both effects are applied after the initial damage. This causes secondary attacks to do much more damage. Addtionally, mystic reverb takes 3s to trigger. During that time you can apply 5 stacks of escalating exposure (3/0.7 round up). This causes follow-up mystic reverb hits to do even more damage.
For more info see: https://deadlocked.wiki/Damage_Resistance
Escalating exposure has two components; minus spirit resist and spirit damage amp. Both effects are applied after the initial damage. This causes secondary attacks to do much more damage. Addtionally, mystic reverb takes 3s to trigger. During that time you can apply 5 stacks of escalating exposure (3/0.7 round up). This causes follow-up mystic reverb hits to do even more damage.
That is assuming that power slashh was the first hit. Which is unlikely.
Also the math doesnt add up. You would need more than 100% increase in damage to reach those numbers.
nicaea_sera
Member
Upvoting this thread, mystic reverb deals weird damage on yamato, ive seen that happening before
You're not understanding how spirit resist works. Please read the link in detail: https://deadlocked.wiki/Damage_Resistance
Against a high spirit resist target, the debuffs from mystic vulnerability + spirit strike can more than triple your damage. That's not even including the 4 or 5 spirit amp stacks from escalating exposure. Mystic vulnerability/escalating exposure are applied after the initial hit.
I'll demonstrate how the math adds up. I'll use the equation from that link I provided, and I'll reverse engineer the OP's spirit resist. Escalating exposure + spirit strike reduces your spirit resist by 23%. I'll assume the OP had 5 stacks of escalating exposure on him (a 1.2 multiplier). I'll represent all percentages using decimals.
reverb damage dealt = initial damage * 0.45 * escalating exposure multiplier^2 * (1 + spirit resist reduction - initial spirit resist)/(1 - initial spirit resist)
We know all those values except for initial spirit resist. So let's simply solve for initial spirit resist.
856 = 700 * 0.45 * 1.2^2 * (1 + 0.23 - initial spirit resist)/(1 - initial spirit resist)
Therefore, based on the above scenario, the OP's initial spirit resist before being attacked was about 74%. The OP's screenshot is a late-game screenshot. They said so in their post. Yamato has at least two 6.2k items (mystic reverb and escalating exposure). 74% spirit resist is quite achievable in late-game with a few tier 3 or tier 4 items.
There are many other ways for 700 initial damage to become 856 reverb damage. It all depends on the OP's specific situation. The point I'm making is that the math does add up. It's not a bug. Please read the link I provided for more info.
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Yeah no... thats not how that works.
Resist and resist reduction is simply a % increase.
100dmg - 10% resist = 90 dmg
100dmg +10% resist reduction = 110 dmg.
Multiple sources stack multiplicative, lessening their effect. For example with 2 10% resists:
1- (1-0.1) x (1-0.1) = 0.19 = 19% resist
Same for reduction.
If we assume that power slash was the first hit and add all resist reduction to see how much damage we get we would need ALOT of reduction.
I suspect spirit amp is applied after the initial damage went through restiance.
Base reverb damage at 700 dmg
700 x 0.45 = 315
Resist reduction spirit strike 12% and EE 12%
1(1-0.12) x (1-0.12) = 0.2256 = 22.56%
Damage before amp
315+(315 x 0.2256) = 386.064
Even with 80% amp from max EE stacks we only reach:
386.064+(386.064x0.8) = 694.9152 final damage
This calculation is as if the player had 0% resist at the beginning. Any additional resistance would simply lower the final damage even more.
Resist and resist reduction is simply a % increase.
100dmg - 10% resist = 90 dmg
100dmg +10% resist reduction = 110 dmg.
Multiple sources stack multiplicative, lessening their effect. For example with 2 10% resists:
1- (1-0.1) x (1-0.1) = 0.19 = 19% resist
Same for reduction.
If we assume that power slash was the first hit and add all resist reduction to see how much damage we get we would need ALOT of reduction.
I suspect spirit amp is applied after the initial damage went through restiance.
Base reverb damage at 700 dmg
700 x 0.45 = 315
Resist reduction spirit strike 12% and EE 12%
1(1-0.12) x (1-0.12) = 0.2256 = 22.56%
Damage before amp
315+(315 x 0.2256) = 386.064
Even with 80% amp from max EE stacks we only reach:
386.064+(386.064x0.8) = 694.9152 final damage
This calculation is as if the player had 0% resist at the beginning. Any additional resistance would simply lower the final damage even more.
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That's incorrect. You need to read the link I provided, or just test it yourself:
- Go into sandbox mode buy three 15% spirit resist items. You'll have 38.5% spirit resist (1-0.85^3 = 0.385). (In game rounds to 39%)
- Create an enemy hero, take control of it, and purchase mystic vulnerability.
- Take control of your original body.
- Now control the enemy hero as a "puppet" (hold tab, aim at the enemy hero and select "make puppet".)
- Have the puppet enemy hero use an ability on you, which will proc mystic vulnerability.
- Your spirit resist will now be 26.5% (38.5% minus 12% = 26.5%). (In game will round to 27%)
You are likely making this mistake because you have only ever tested things against the target dummy. The target dummy has zero spirit resist. You need to test it against a target with spirit resist.
I understand the article perfectly well. Thanks
You seem to mix match alot of stuff...
If you understand the article perfectly well, then you would have read the line which says that resistance reduction is subtracted from resistance.
And if you understand the equations, then you'd realise that mystic vulnerability can provide a very large damage multiplier against high spirit resist targets.
Suppose, hypothetically, that a target had 99% spirit resist. Hence they would only take 1% damage. If you apply mystic vulnerability to this target, they will now have 87% spirit resist. Hence they would take 13% damage. When effected by mystic vulnerability, a target with 99% spirit resist takes x13 more damage (13% damage taken compared to 1% damage taken). In this scenario, mystic vulnerability is a x13 damage multiplier.
It's not possible to get 99% spirit resist. Rather, I'm trying to illustrate the mathematics to you. If a target had 99% spirit resist, mystic vulnerability is a x13 damage multiplier. If the target had 88% spirit resist, mystic vulnerability is a x2 damage multiplier.
I demonstrated this already when I first showed the calculations. Mystic vulnerability + spike strike is -23% spirit resist. (-22.56% if you want to be exact.) Against high spirit resist targets, minus 23% spirit resist can result in a ~x3 damage multiplier.
Instead you claimed:
This is false. Please make sure you actually understand the equations.
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I think we are somewhere talking past each other.
You claim im false while simlutanously saying the exact same.
The tooltip of my ability says it will deal 100dmg.
The target has 10% resist.
I will deal 90 damage.
Vice versa my ability deals 100dmg and the target has -10% resist it will deal 110dmg.
This is EXPLICITLY stated in the article I quote:
"
The final Resistance can go negative, and this multiplies the damage taken of that type. For example:
- 30% resist= 70% of the damage from the weapon or ability.
- 0% resist = 100% of the damage from the weapon or ability.
- -30% resist = 130% of the damage from the weapon or ability. "
You seem to be ignoring base damage. Yes it technically is a 13x increases, however its still 87% LESS base damage.
Plz before you respond again, think this through. Do the math from start to finish without skipping or leaving blanks. As Ive done in a previous post. I hahve used the exact formula of thhe article step by step 1 to 1. It is a 100% correct.
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Base damage fails to explain the OP's screenshot. We have a screenshot of the actual damage dealt, not the skill's base damage.
Exactly! This is why the actual damage dealt by Mystic Reverb hit harder than the actual damage dealt by the initial hit.
Against high spirit resist targets, minus spirit resist creates a large damage multiplier on the actual damage dealt. Mystic Vulnerability is applied after the initial hit. Combine that with escalating exposure stacks and you have explained why the Mystic Reverb in the OP's screenshot hit harder than the initial strike.
I provided this explanation when I first demonstrated the calculations. I calculated the actual damage dealt by Mystic Reverb. Instead you replied by saying: "Yeah no... thats not how that works." You are incorrect. My calculation demonstrates exactly how it works: The OP had high initial spirit resist, and was hit with a Power Slash. The follow-up Mystic Reverb hit harder due to subsequent minus spirit resist and escalating exposure.
At least acknowledge the correct explanation when it is provided to you.
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thatoneguy5150
New member
Thanks for the responses. The replay is finally able to be downloaded. The Yamato missed a couple abilities, I Cursed them and beat em up a bit, they ulted, hit a Power Slash, Crimson, Flying, then Mystic Reverb Killed me. There were a couple Torment Pulse ticks throughout. So only one Power Slash and reverb proc.
My Spirit Resist was 15%
Yamato had 121 Spirit Power (both our item cards in the image)
My Spirit Resist was 15%
Yamato had 121 Spirit Power (both our item cards in the image)
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thatoneguy5150
New member
Based on what I've seen watching the replay and reading about other bugs, this may just be the Mystic Reverb double proc when it kills that other people have reported
Okey fine, im done with. There is no point. You have a fundemental missunderstanding of math and zero will to correct it. Have a good one.
Ive tried to download it, but it is very very broken. Graphical glitches all over the place and it frequently crashhes the entire game. Maybe I shhould try to redownload. Im quite interested in what happend exactly.
Then that must mean that you had more than 5 stacks of escalating exposure on you. I had assumed 5 stacks in my previous calculation, but it must have been higher.
Let's assume you had no other temporary modifiers to your spirit resist.
Escalating exposure stacks last 12s (refreshed on application), while the spirit resist reduction component only lasts 6s (the 6s duration is copied from mystic vulnerability).
There are two possibilities.
#1: Prior to being hit with Power Slash, the spirit resist reduction wore off, while the escalating exposure stacks remained.
#2: Prior to being hit with Power Slash, the spirit resist reduction remained and the escalating exposure stacks also remained.
Using the previously provided equation we can predict how many escalating exposure stacks you had on you:
reverb damage dealt = initial damage * 0.45 * escalating exposure multiplier^2 * (1 + spirit resist reduction - initial spirit resist)/(1 - initial spirit resist)
We know all these values except for escalating exposure multiplier. So we can solve for escalating exposure multiplier.
Depending on whether or not the spirit resist reduction wore off, and depending on how many escalating exposure stacks were applied during the 3s mystic reverb delay, you had between 6 and 16 stacks on you as mystic reverb triggered (assuming no other temporary modifiers to your spirit resist). You probably died with 8 or 9 escalating exposure stacks on you as mystic reverb triggered.
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