[ Hero Concept ] Shay, the Ashen Nomad (Updates in comments!)

[saleenaracena]

If we go further into the tankbuster direction, we can change the Chase so that instead of granting more damage, it reduces the resist of enemies. While this doesn't mean much in the early game, this becomes more useful in the late game as it allows you to bypass the inevitable items that people buy to survive.
HP requirement is increased because of it. This also makes it different from the ult (so not double damage stacking).

Yeah it would definitely be a fun late game melee character, I think it would need to get fixed for early lanes, since basically a lot of medium to ranged matchups would be insufferable. Cool design instead of just a vampire too.

 

[flameblast12]

Flesh Tax Active Glaive swing should deal Melee damage, like Crimson Slash

 

[volkgang]

Yeah it would definitely be a fun late game melee character, I think it would need to get fixed for early lanes, since basically a lot of medium to ranged matchups would be insufferable. Cool design instead of just a vampire too.

Yeah he needs something for the laning phase since he would suck a lot against most characters. I did have the idea that he should somehow get more from farming to encourage the hunting nomad idea but flameblast12 has an idea that I might see to. Currently none of his abilities actually do damage by themselves, and so having one that does one could be an easy buff to the early lane and likely one of the first abilities you'd get.

I still like to experiment with the idea of a farming character like Rem and Calico but focused on taking out nests instead of just the insane mobility and tunneling.

-----

Thanks for complimenting on how he isn't just a vampire. He is exploring the idea of how immortality usually comes from some sort of cost or just an inherent part of the species. Shay is a human, like us, and so we are 'built' to die. Vampires gain their immorality with downsides and needing to consume other life to keep it going. He doesn't and so that comes with unique downsides.

 

[volkgang]

He is inspired by folklore of Kashchei (Hence the nickname Shay) but also Utnapishtim from the Epic of Gilgamesh. Utnapishtim tells Giglamesh that he can teach him immorality if he can go a week without sleeping. That is what life is like without death to us humans. It's why he should look and sound sleep deprived in interactions.
Rem - "How was your nap?"
Shay - "Still tired, but thanks for trying."
Rem - "Maybe you just need a second nap!"

Shay seemingly first has no downsides but due to the unnaturalness of his condition, he's basically ending up in a living hell where he can't really enjoy anything as his body is becoming a numb cancer that only focuses on keeping him alive rather than letting him actually live normally.

It's also an analogy for depression and how people end up stuck. "I'll do it tomorrow" and how life that used to be bright and sensuous before becoming a mind-breaking existence. He could've done much more with his life (and he still can do actual stuff) but his wish is just a suicidal wish. Despite being an immortal, his body and mind is still stuck being a young man.

 

[volkgang]

Flesh Tax Active Glaive swing should deal Melee damage, like Crimson Slash

Yeah I can see it doing damage right from the start to help making the early game better. Something like this? I don't want it doing a lot of damage (Crimson Slash does 61.8 but it is only in front of Drifter + it does Spirit AND melee damage)

Question is, should it be melee damage so it'd scale with melee items, or spirit so it Shay has a way to better proc spirit items?

 

[flameblast12]

Question is, should it be melee damage so it'd scale with melee items, or spirit so it Shay has a way to better proc spirit items?

It's your hero so it's definitely up to you.

But maybe you might do both. There are plenty of melee abilities with bonus spirit damage, such as Rake(Drifter 1) or Bashdown(Billy 1). You could add "Sweet Spot" mechanism(Like prementioned Rake, or Darius[From League]'s Q) if you want to reward the positioning aspect.

 

[volkgang]

It's your hero so it's definitely up to you.

But maybe you might do both. There are plenty of melee abilities with bonus spirit damage, such as Rake(Drifter 1) or Bashdown(Billy 1). You could add "Sweet Spot" mechanism(Like prementioned Rake, or Darius[From League]'s Q) if you want to reward the positioning aspect.

Oh sure I just like the process of getting feedback and figuring out what people would generally find the most fun.

I can see it doing both, especially as a way to compensate for his range so that during laning he has more of a close range damage output. A sweet spot like Drifter could work.


I also thought about a different last upgrade that would change how the character would play.

It came to me in a dream. The whole point of the 3 and Passive is to build up to singular, strong Heavy Melees after hitting people with shots. With this last upgrade, now this ability can proc the passive after upgrading it to max. I can see CD being increased to compensate for this.

The good? Makes him easier and better in general as you can deal more damage and proc the passive without committing a heavy melee. People cannot parry this ability so it's a way to guarantee getting something from your stacks as long as you get close. People will have to buy Counterspell.

Players who are starting out can perform consistently a bit better as if they cannot pull Heavy Melees, at least they can pull of this to get something out of the 3. It also makes him more viable in higher skill play where now he has 2 ways to activate his passive, where one doesn't invoke a harsh penalty.

The bad is that it might be too easy and cheapen the passive. You'd have to adjust the numbers for making the 3 relatively easy to activate close range, and you might want to change its last upgrade where you make hitting someone an AOE.

Still, it could be an idea worth exploring.

 

[volkgang]

BIG Rework​

I'm thinking of changing the 3 passive to be a passive and active to give Shay a way to activate stacks without just Heavy Melees, and without needing to upgrading Flesh Tax to max.

So now its a thrust which allow better poking and killing enemies running away. The passive and marking system still exists. However I buffed the HP restored from it. Why? I removed lifesteal from the Tax. The ultimate already gives lifesteal and there's items that give it. I want to make each ability do its own effect without overlap. This makes him less of a front-liner but with now how easier it is to proc stacks to get healing, he still can tank more than someone without it.

I also removed the life'bank' part of the passive as it might be too much and complicated to have. The ability is already stacked.

With the upgrades, I really like the idea of each upgrade granting more maximum stacks and getting more effects the higher they are. However, you also want upgrades to the thrust. So I put them both in the image. Having both might be too overkill, and so think of the lines as possible upgrades to put into the kit rather than final.

Justification for certain upgrade ideas:
First Upgrade - Restoring stamina allows you to maintain movement but only if you are relatively close enough to deal Heavy Melee damage. So he's a melee fighter but not like Abrams or Billy who can just tank. He dodges attacks but only if he is able to proc stacks. However restoring 2 stamina can be too much, so it can be reduced to 1 regained or moved to a higher tier of upgrade.

I like to note with these changes and removal of lifesteal, he doesn't have Wolverine type healing in his lore. He has regeneration but he can't just regen everything quickly. He endures and can be 'killed' (He just wakes up later), but not enough to be super obvious to everyone.

The idea of a thrust range upgrade is to better poke in the early game and allow you to possibly skewer multiple at once.

Second Upgrade - I still want an element of tankbusting with the kit and so the mark upgrade would still reduce resistances. I do like the idea of them taking more melee damage but spirit damage is more common, and so it reducing spirit resist is helpful for your team.

The thrust upgrade would be a reduction to cooldown on hit. Simple but if done well (I imagine the thrust doesn't have a wide hitbox) it allows you to keep up the heals and damage better.

Third Upgrade - I like the idea of a shockwave. That's it.

The thrust upgrade is the more interesting option of the two but may not justify being the last upgrade. The idea is to force enemies who are in the air to be put down. You trying to double jump and escape? Get down and be meleed. Oh hello Vindicta. Let me put you into a better position to be janked by the team.

It doesn't seem huge at first but the ability to force anyone in the air to return to the ground can be very powerful in the right hands. And if we have the mark upgrades alongside the thrust upgrades, you could have the shockwave happen when they land.

Again, big changes but overall makes the kit simpler and comes together quicker as you are less reliant on having to do Heavy Melees.