Heavy Melee cancel feels like a bug/exploit and should be patched

[Theos]

Doesnt seem to be intended behavior, and if it is, honestly it needs to be removed. Being able to redirect your hero mid heavy melee dash is already a mechanic good enough to bait parries and reward good players without being too OP, while heavy melee canceling just feels like an exploit. I feel like most people should agree on this, but if not, I would love to hear different opinions.

 

[Rallie]

I really hate it considering that it's affected heavily by the ping and latency, the parry and melee system itself seem bad because of this issue. Since the heavy melee hit-box is so huge it's most of the time futile to try to dodge it.
What is the point in trying to parry something obvious when it can be cancelled instantly? The whole interaction favors only the attacker, there is no depth in it it's just retarded.

 

[tgbtgv]

It was removed at some point and then added back in by Yoshi Explicitly(He has posted about this already) so yes it is explicit behavior, It is a skill check like jump dash and its very possible to miss it as the window to execute is really small. I think they put it back in to see player usage

 

[trackpadchad]

My only concern is that Melee Charge grants Abrams insane mobility at such a low price. Otherwise, it's fun and makes the game more interesting. It already requires the use of items and/or cooldowns, so it's not exactly free. Also, any kind of movement slow effect severely reduces the momentum that HMC can bring; even slowing bullets will suffice.

I really hate it considering that it's affected heavily by the ping and latency, the parry and melee system itself seem bad because of this issue. Since the heavy melee hit-box is so huge it's most of the time futile to try to dodge it.
What is the point in trying to parry something obvious when it can be cancelled in an instance? The whole interaction favors only the attacker, there is no depth in it it's just retarded.

It only has a huge hitbox during the actual punch. Otherwise, the "hitbox" during the charge is slightly larger than their player model (technically not a hitbox, but too lazy to explain). Heavy melee moves faster than dashing, so it will absolutely never work for dodging unless if they're at heavy melee's maximum range. If you're unsure about parrying and want to avoid heavy melee, simply double jump or walljump over them. You can practice with the melee bot in the sandbox, or you can just fight an average Abrams or Haze player.
View attachment clip_1,726,915,876,744.mp4

 

[PKPenguin]

This is a good video on the topic:

tl;dr I think it's actually a very fun mechanic but the speed you get from it with Melee Charge is kind of over the top. If it was canonized as a mechanic and made so that it doesn't get a huge speed boost from the heavy melee distance stat, it would be perfectly fine

 

[Rallie]

My only concern is that Melee Charge grants Abrams insane mobility at such a low price. Otherwise, it's fun and makes the game more interesting. It already requires the use of items and/or cooldowns, so it's not exactly free. Also, any kind of movement slow effect severely reduces the momentum that HMC can bring; even slowing bullets will suffice.

Would the reduction of the parry cooldown be a solution? Both the attacker and the defender can dodge it’s not exclusive to the one parrying.

It only has a huge hitbox during the actual punch. Otherwise, the "hitbox" during the charge is slightly larger than their player model (technically not a hitbox, but too lazy to explain). Heavy melee moves faster than dashing, so it will absolutely never work for dodging unless if they're at heavy melee's maximum range.

Yes, that was the premise.

If you're unsure about parrying and want to avoid heavy melee, simply double jump or walljump over them. You can practice with the melee bot in the sandbox, or you can just fight an average Abrams or Haze player.

My main concern is the interaction between the heavy melee and the parry, dodging it is no problem.

This is a good video on the topic:

tl;dr I think it's actually a very fun mechanic but the speed you get from it with Melee Charge is kind of over the top. If it was canonized as a mechanic and made so that it doesn't get a huge speed boost from the heavy melee distance stat, it would be perfectly fine

I liked the example starting at 8:08. I only looked at certain parts of the video and not the full length.
If there is a implication that there is depth in this, then it’s very one sided. Since the attacker can decide when to instantly stop their heavy melee. You remove the risk of being parried if it can be bypassed this easily, considering that the parry cooldown takes effect after.
You might as well just keep a distance and try to dodge instead of parrying since it is so easily bypassed no matter how obvious the heavy melee is.

 

[chargi]

I don't think it feels like one, its just a very intricate mechanic, which is good.
Some characters or items don't benefit from it, even though the should imho.
Ivy's 2, Warden's 2, Haze 2, Pocket 3, Seven 3 and Viscous 4 feel like they should also be able to be Heavy Melee Cancelled. Same goes with Unstoppable, Heroic Aura, Shadow Weave, Metal Skin, Return Fire, Echo Shard, Refresher, Magic Carpet - as they feel like a self buff.

 

[trackpadchad]

Would the reduction of the parry cooldown be a solution? Both the attacker and the defender can dodge it’s not exclusive to the one parrying.

The melee mindgames are less of a concern than the mobility since there is more to the rock paper scissors than just parrying. With melee charge, HMC sends you at 1100 U/s, which lets Abrams be everywhere at once like Viscous. My spitball suggestion would be to rework melee charge into a T3 item, as the mobility is comparable to majestic leap, and it would delay Abrams snowballing out of control in the earlygame.

 

[trackpadchad]

Ivy's 2, Warden's 2, Haze 2, Pocket 3, Seven 3 and Viscous 4 feel like they should also be able to be Heavy Melee Cancelled.

It would be really fun if Viscous could HMC with his 2, but idk if that would be fair.

 

[chargi]

It would be really fun if Viscous could HMC with his 2, but idk if that would be fair.

Keep in mind, Viscous needs to target someone or itself, which breaks these rules.

 

[photon]

As much as I like these "hidden" movement techs (HMC) and punch techs, they are just way too strong for the cost and have 0 counterplay to them. IMO Remove HMC and if the community like them that much, add a new item that works similarly to HMC but in a nerfed and controlled state. That is way healthier for the game overall.

As for Punch canceling, that shit should be removed asap.

 

[chargi]

As much as I like these "hidden" movement techs (HMC) and punch techs, they are just way too strong for the cost and have 0 counterplay to them. IMO Remove HMC and if the community like them that much, add a new item that works similarly to HMC but in a nerfed and controlled state. That is way healthier for the game overall.

As for Punch canceling, that shit should be removed asap.

To fully utilize it, you need to get Melee Charge and probably at least another item that synergizes with it for value. There is already Majestic Leap in the game, which got nerfed to gulp.

So it costs 2 slots and 2500 souls for that. Melee Charge on T3 and being an upgrade to Spirit Strike with the added debuff would be probably more fitting but also gives the upside of combining these effects to a singular slot, which is even strong without HMC.

 

[irover]

plz don't!

 

[Miria]

I agree to cancel it