Hard Support Item that gives Souls overtime + Assist bounty Bonus. (Souls gain amount are subjective and conditional)

I noticed this game is really hard to play support, either you get out-farmed or can't help the team in crucial time due to busy farming.

I believed an Item that helps you gain Souls overtime + Assist bounty bonus might mitigate that a little bit.

In order for hard carries not to abuse this item, it will be only more effective if your the lowest spirit in your team.

For example,

Weapon Tier 1 item

+30% assist bounty

Passive active: Gain 3-9 Souls for every 10 seconds depending the Souls amount you have compare to your team.
 
I've never found it quite so difficult as a support player to gain souls in comparison to say something like DotA, namely since confirmed and denied souls aren't just going to the 'hard carries', and how rubber banding soul values seem to work. I rarely see a game where there's character that's ahead of their team by a great mile unless they are dying considerably less, or off farming the entire game and only coming to team fights after they are extremely farmed out.

I do however find that an item that improves soul gains, even in specific methods becomes either a must buy or a complete pass on every hero, regardless of hero type. If the souls gains is greater than the value of the item, baring any other passive effects like shields/regen/ammo etc, within a reasonable time frame you buy it every time. If it doesn't, its too much a penalty to give up on power early you would get by making a different purchase with the souls you do have.

It's an interesting idea, I just don't really see how you will be able to overcome that problem with an item of that design.
 
Dota 2 used to have hard times for supports and people complained that supports fell off really hard in the late game. They buffed supports and today everyone is powerful and hard carries no longer exist. I think it's a slippery slope to begin inflating the soul economy so to speak with free income, just so supports can buy items too.

I also think it's too early to determine whether there is need for hard supports or not in this game. Unlike conventional Mobas, you don't focus all your time into taking last hits when the minions are on low health. If you did, the opponent would be gunning you down from a safe position until you die.

I think this game will evolve into players sharing and taking whatever last hits and denies they can get their hands on, as super focus on waiting for minions to get low health and then finish them off and then take the extra credit and also deny enemies just isn't doable, when the enemy is constantly chipping at your health.

I wonder if anyone else feels the same, as I haven't played that many online matches.

Edit: However, I think there's room for an item that gives you more souls from neutral minions, but fewer from lane minions.
 
Dota 2 used to have hard times for supports and people complained that supports fell off really hard in the late game. They buffed supports and today everyone is powerful and hard carries no longer exist. I think it's a slippery slope to begin inflating the soul economy so to speak with free income, just so supports can buy items too.

I also think it's too early to determine whether there is need for hard supports or not in this game. Unlike conventional Mobas, you don't focus all your time into taking last hits when the minions are on low health. If you did, the opponent would be gunning you down from a safe position until you die.

I think this game will evolve into players sharing and taking whatever last hits and denies they can get their hands on, as super focus on waiting for minions to get low health and then finish them off and then take the extra credit and also deny enemies just isn't doable, when the enemy is constantly chipping at your health.

I wonder if anyone else feels the same, as I haven't played that many online matches.

Edit: However, I think there's room for an item that gives you more souls from neutral minions, but fewer from lane minions.
Typically, its a flow in Deadlock. Get as many last hits and confirms/denies as you can, while also doing what you can to get angles and harass the opponents for either kills, or making it harder for them to farm. As is, any soul confirmed/denied close to you is split amongst everyone in the immediate area for that team.

'Supports' in this game really kind of are limited to Team Fight Crowd Control or Heals/Buffs. I'd say there are like 3 Supports in game currently (Dynamo, McGinnis, and Ivy). You may be able to lump in 'Tanks' like Abrams or Warden as a support, but I find that a bit of a stretch as they have a very different playstyle. That said, other than survival items, any of these characters can 'carry' just as easily with the right items, and the spread between a 'carry' and a 'support' is considerably thinner.

Supports in DotA were about building items that supported others like Mekanism, Wards, Dust etc, keeping carries safe in early laneing phase and denying creeps. In team fights they typically have better baseline skills for stuns, aoe, locking down etc, which don't scale with items beyond say Aghanims.

It's already quite different, and that's sort of why I'd suggest against this kind of an item design, as well as the nuetral creep items. Technically you already have it with the "Monster Rounds" item, but thats just for killing them, not the rewards. The problem with this is it promotes a play style that isn't currently supported skill wise in game - specifically jungling. In a game like DotA putting someone in the jungle meant more exp from creep kills for the entire team at the risk of a lane being solo against 2 or even a tri-lane. Since how souls are sort of like our EXP and Gold from DotA combined, and the nature of how to gain them is considerably different, you can't necessarily just have a jungle in cause it was in DotA. Having a 2 v 1 lane is considerably different in Deadlock than in DotA, and I don't think this would be a good idea to promote. While yes there is a delay before the first creeps spawn on the map, they are good as a supplemental source while you move, not necessarily something to focus on instead of the lanes. Just by nature of the game being a shooter instead of a Moba - visibility and ganking is very different etc, having someone in the jungle the entire time is such a detriment to the team.

That's just my thoughts
 
That's just my thoughts
I agree with your consensus. In fact, if one thing were to be changed, it is probably a rework to the jungle in this game. It doesn't seem to fit and quite frankly seems unnecessary. Perhaps they should try out a build where there are no neutral camps to farm or replace it with something else that is more engaging.

I remember the jungle from Super Monday Night Combat having neutral enemies engaging and hunting you down when you enter the jungle. Perhaps some of that could be implemented into this game.
 
I noticed this game is really hard to play support, either you get out-farmed or can't help the team in crucial time due to busy farming.

I believed an Item that helps you gain Souls overtime + Assist bounty bonus might mitigate that a little bit.

In order for hard carries not to abuse this item, it will be only more effective if your the lowest spirit in your team.

For example,

Weapon Tier 1 item

+30% assist bounty

Passive active: Gain 3-9 Souls for every 10 seconds depending the Souls amount you have compare to your team.
if u looking to increase farm potentional of heroes that u call hard supports - i see it like full actives items for fights and 0 attack items u should look into midas from dota.
For example 3k item that u can use on any trooper or jungle creep, that instantly give u 500 souls or x3 of standart bounty of a creep,
And cooldown must be set like 70-90 sec

But i agree with others hre, there are no hard supports in this game, u have enough damage to clear any troopers or jungle camp (exept very hard) and do this often even u have only healing rite
 
I noticed this game is really hard to play support, either you get out-farmed or can't help the team in crucial time due to busy farming.

I believed an Item that helps you gain Souls overtime + Assist bounty bonus might mitigate that a little bit.

In order for hard carries not to abuse this item, it will be only more effective if your the lowest spirit in your team.

For example,

Weapon Tier 1 item

+30% assist bounty

Passive active: Gain 3-9 Souls for every 10 seconds depending the Souls amount you have compare to your team.

When i first played the game I initially agreed with you. Then i focused on soul denial and getting kills in lane. Sure enough I was getting higher souls than my "carry" and was leading in souls in the whole game at ~10min. You've just got to adapt to the game. *PS* i was playing seven support/AP, so i could dish out damage and my team fight was pretty good.

Still lost game though :P
 
hate to say it, there is no hard support role in this game. I get there's an interest to call Ivy, Dynamo and Miku supports because they all have heals and team synergy, but that's all. Wraith gives teammates a fire rate buff, she's hardly a support. Miku for sure has no issue farming, Ivy has one of the best wave clear abilities in the game, and Dynamo just needs Leap and Refresher so I don't know what the issue is. You're probably too hesitant to farm creeps if they're far away. You need better escapes. Dynamo should have Leap, Ivy can just 4 and kinetic dash, and Miku... I dunno you're probably beyond help with her but you're also probably taking third tier objectives so it balances out

In other words, git gud
 
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