Deadlock Melee Hero concept - Dempsey

joggingscout

New member
Reposting this from the Discord. Way back when I was first trying the game and I played Yamato I really wanted a true melee character since she has that big ass sword but never uses it in her melee animations. Now I present to you, Dempsey.

I ran the numbers to make their stats as in line with the current roster as possible. There's no precedent for melee heroes and deadlock is also kind of the only MOBA I play, so I tried my best but I think I created something good.
 

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I love this one. Only real criticism would be that some upgrades are too loaded, mostly on the 1 and 3, and that he doesn't care that much for spirit? Maybe I'm underestimating him on that second one.

Can I ask, how does the block work with Quick Silver Reload? If it works by giving a split second block, then it would actually be good even without increasing the damage on anything, depending on how much resists it gives.
 
This ult is tooo much time consuming, am i right that its kinda 13 sec? so it means that if you ult then some1 dies 100%
 
This ult is tooo much time consuming, am i right that its kinda 13 sec? so it means that if you ult then some1 dies 100%
Oh no, I believe you've misread the Cooldown timer as the duration. The Ult is more or less identical to Ice Shelter. Base 5.5s duration and 130s cooldown.
I love this one. Only real criticism would be that some upgrades are too loaded, mostly on the 1 and 3, and that he doesn't care that much for spirit? Maybe I'm underestimating him on that second one.

Can I ask, how does the block work with Quick Silver Reload? If it works by giving a split second block, then it would actually be good even without increasing the damage on anything, depending on how much resists it gives.
I tried to make each tier 3 upgrade valuable in some fashion to encourage varied upgrade routes. I also tried to make it so his tier 3s make him much more viable at fighting off groups of enemies since he is intended to struggle against ganks and such unless he has people to even out the fight. However, I do indeed see what you mean they do have a lot.

Also intentional is that he IS designed to be less sprit oriented but I can see your concern. His mark is supposed to make up for that cause of the dmg increase. But, he does actually benefit from sprit quite well. The radius of his counter punch scaling with spirit allows him access to get in using it, and improves the range of his fists in a considerable but not too overbearing way. It also makes his mark hurt more, and scale something very important that I accidentally forgot to include in the base stats.

3 stamina | 1.0 sprint speed | 6.3 (x 0.013 spirit) move speed

His move speed scales like seven but less harshly, and this is actually very big for him I feel since it means he doesn't have to rely on using his abilities which means he can better land stuff like Shock n' Awe. Also consider a lot of the spirit item actives such as slowing hex and knockdown. being melee build cornerstones. And torment pulse just existing as well. I think he still finds a way to benefit from spirit alot, but without being crucial to his build. That being said, I probably should have made Shock n' Awe do spirit damage instead so I understand that point.

As for quicksilver reload I originally thought he just wouldn't be able to buy it but you actually propose a very good idea, I like it alot. it'd mean he'd get a cancel window for his block that also gives him bullet lifesteal.
 
I think my biggest concern is that he only has an 8m range on his "focused" strikes and he doesn't have particularly high Bullet resist and health to compensate that he always has to be in melee both to last hit and fight. Consider that most guns don't even start to fall off until 22m and you have a HUGE disadvantage. He doesn't have any tools that actually help him stay in the fray. He needs some kind of sustain (via healing) or else he'll just get shoved out of lane and get no farm whatsoever in most lobbies, even with the "block" effect and cover.

Also, since his standard fire is melee punches, does that mean that he could get parried from his standard gun? How would that even work? This is compounded by the fact that because he HAS no "gun" he is ALWAYS doing melee attacks so if his "gun" melee attacks can be parried he is going to get parried constantly. Are you planning any mechanics to counter that?

A couple more concerns, How does +Ammo work on this? This is a regular bonus that players get from both items and gold urns. Is it just converted into Melee damage? What about Fire rate? Does that increase his basic combo rate? What about the cooldown after the 4th swing?

Don't get me wrong, I think the idea is workable, but more thought needs to be put in to making him work within the existing melee mechanics.
 
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Love me some fighting game inspired character concepts for this game. I made one myself, but one based on the grapplers of Street Fighter. I'd love to see something like this in the game since melee is so fun in this game, though the ult seems like a crazier/more strict variant of Kelvin's ice dome, and could prolly either be tweaked/changed to something else, since it forces a 1v1 with someone.
 
I think he still finds a way to benefit from spirit alot, but without being crucial to his build. That being said, I probably should have made Shock n' Awe do spirit damage instead so I understand that point.
Your points are valid, I only mentioned it because it makes an otherwise perfect bruiser item in Spirit Snatch, that does give both offense and defense, into an optional one. Even with that, he doesn't really need it.
Also, since his standard fire is melee punches, does that mean that he could get parried from his standard gun?
Was that your reading of it? To me it just seemed like he had a gun that benefited from melee damage and was affected by melee resist. Which by itself isn't good or bad, he just has a different multiplier than everyone else.
I think the idea is workable
Agreed, and I also think it would be good for the game to have a character like this.
 
He doesn't have any tools that actually help him stay in the fray.
I don't particularly agree, stick with me on this. On top of his base bullet resist and high health. The kit has a lot of damage negation, and the sources of that also give him a lot of movement. He doesn't have much sustain because he just outright doesn't take that damage.

His counter moves him forward and if the assailant is in his range he just goes straight too them. His 2 gives him the most damage negation with weaving since, despite it keeping him in place, he's not getting hurt and that's kind of fucking huge. Plus, he can force the opponent to come to him if they get frustrated (or want to exploit that he cannot parry a melee without dropping this stance) or if he chooses to play risky and use his far reaching dash punch to get in. I forgot to put his movement stats but since he has 3 bars of stamina, laning phase (especially on solo) is either even or really in his favor.

His tools come from his kit and items. (hence the phrase "when he isn't busy training" in his bio) Like let me run some stuff by you:

- Extra stamina, that's four bars of stamina which gives him ALOT to work with and on top of that his stamina regen goes UP and his fire rate increases.
- Healing rite, pop healing rite and stay in 2 to weave while the enemy wastes ammo and Dempsey is healing since he's not taking any damage to cancel the healing rite. And like I said before, Unless they force him out of the stance if the enemy gets impatient and they go for him he can put the hurt on. And +3 spirit which scales a lot of his abilities and his primary and move speed.
-Close quarters, This is really self explanatory. More damage, more damage in his range that he's made to be in, and +4% bullet resist.
-Mystic reach, follow close quarters up with mystic reach? more range on like a bunch of shit and +7% bullet resist?

There's a lot of shit he can do and he's not a character that's meant to immediately win the game unless the person playing them is considerably good at him

he is going to get parried constantly. Are you planning any mechanics to counter that?
That makes no sense from a game design and gameplay standpoint that his primary fire would just get parried like that. It would mean that he literally gets to do nothing at all ever. Why would they do that, I'm not sure how you gathered that from the description of his gun.

What about Fire rate? Does that increase his basic combo rate? What about the cooldown after the 4th swing?
Fire rate would increase his combo rate but his recovery on the 4th swing would still be .64 seconds (this is also how mercenary from ROR2 works)

A couple more concerns, How does +Ammo work on this? This is a regular bonus that players get from both items and gold urns.
This is actually a very valid concern, with how the game currently is he either just wouldn't get this or wouldn't really benefit from it. Personally, I think he just wouldn't benefit from it. I like the idea of converting it into something else but this is genuinely something that would have to be deliberated with a real actual playable version.

but more thought needs to be put in to making him work within the existing melee mechanics.
There is no precedent for melee based characters in Deadlock that aren't aren't abilities that also do melee dmg or holding down Q as Abrams. The closest we get right now is Yamato. Who, right now, doesn't even use the melee half the time since current meta is gun Yamato or juicing spirit so you can mash your abilities to blitz someone to death and then OCCASIONALLY slapping someone.
Like I mentioned in the "thesis," I looked at Dota 2's melee roster for alot of inspiration and since this game already cannibalizes alot of Dota 2's roster and abilities I believe it to be fairly workable.
 
I don't think you understood what I mean by him getting bullied out of lane. What I mean is, because he is limited to extremely short range (what seems to be around 12-18m) he is going to get poked relentlessly. No one has to get close to him. Pocket, Geist, Yamato, Vindicta, etc. are all going to wreck him in lane because they don't need to be any closer than 25m to him to bully him. Add to the fact that he will have to be close to the wave constantly in order to get last hits, this makes him predictable and relatively easy to zone out.

This is literally the case for melee heroes in DotA and all MOBAs I've ever played. Melee character all have needed strong tools to make it is so they could remain relevant in lane, or there are underlying mechanics that support them. DotA has a reduced XP penalty for melee heroes who get denied, along with simple shields that can block portions of auto-attack damage that are strong on them (At least, this was the case last I played DotA. It's been a minute).

As for his gun, you specifically mentioned that his gun is a punch. Punches are melee attacks. If his gun isn't going to be parry-able then there needs to be a clear delineation between what his melee attacks are and what his gun attacks are.

You are also going to have to clarify what you mean by "weaving". Does that give him bullet evasion? Is his hit box just constantly swinging about, making it hard to hit? What do you mean? Without a clear definition of what "weaving" actually does, I couldn't say if it provides enough evasiveness to actually make him be able to stay in lane. From what I can tell, the biggest effect is that he can "sidestep", but is there a cooldown on this? If not, couldn't he just constantly sidestep across the map? It might sound silly, but I guarantee that players would use that to get around if it has no limitations. While these tools seem nice to prevent him from taking lots of bullet damage, it's unlikely to keep him from getting hit by things like Yamato's Slash, Pocket's Barrage, or other similar poke tools if it doesn't have some kind of cooldown of some sort.

To add to this, you've added additional ways for him to consume stamina, but extra stamina restoration doesn't come until his 5 point upgrade in Bob and Weave. Are the additional skills supposed to consume less than a full stamina bar? That's not made clear if it is.

You mention that he has 3 stamina bars, which is average. Ivy has more than most at 4 bars and she has stone form to help her get out of trouble.

Like I said, the idea is cool. I like the concept, and I'm not opposed to it. This is a nice v0.1. I think that, with more work and clarification it might be an idea I'd like to see in the game, even though we have strong melee themed hero in Calico now.
 
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