Calico - Ava feels pointless

[Plasmabubble]

Background: Oracle 4 player, very little Calico experience, but I've seen a lot of content on her from better players. These are early thoughts.

Calico's visual design is fantastic, her playstyle is exciting and skillful, and her power level is relatively balanced for a brand-new hero, but four aspects of her design feel clunky to me:

1) Biggest issue: Ava is an underwhelming and awkward ability. Being able to roam quickly and stealthily for early ganks is excellent, and it fits well with her early-game-heavy power curve. However, it does... basically nothing else? Calico's design is begging for you to build mobility items (superior stamina, warp stone etc.), which often render Ava completely redundant by the end of the mid-game. Every single build upgrades Ava last, so the regen is never even relevant. Add in the 5-second out-of-combat limitation, and the ability feels almost useless. I think we're missing a lot of potential for more creative and dynamic play.
Suggestions: Maybe allow it to be used in combat, or allow the player to climb walls in cat form, or add some regen to the base ability? Anything to give Ava a more distinct identity and broader usability.

2) The choice to use a random pattern for her 1 instead of a fixed one is strange. It reduces her skill ceiling, and makes the character much more frustrating, especially for newer players. If you're worried about the ability being too strong, nerf other aspects, but don't introduce unnecessary RNG.
Suggestion: why not use the same diamond pattern as her gun spread? It would keep the range of the ability limited, and it would help to build a coherent visual identity for the character. Add the two extra bombs from the max upgrade into the middle of the pattern to provide a bit of extra accuracy to the ability in late game, when it really starts to fall off.

3) Isn't it pretty weird that the only melee effect that works with her 2 is (reportedly) melee lifesteal?? Why even bother making the damage type "light melee" if you don't allow builds to take full advantage?

4) Hit registration on 2 feels wonky. This is by far the smallest of the complaints, because it could be a simple skill issue. Something about the surprisingly short range and low radius, combined with the minimal visual effect for the radius indicator, makes it difficult to gauge. I think a purely visual change to make that radius clearer would help a lot.

All opinions welcome! Like I say, these are early thoughts.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

I agree that the upgrade path for ava is a non-factor. It needs redone so that there is an incentive to level it

I completely disagree about how good the base ability is. It is borderline busted. It gives a terrific amount of escape even with the 5 second cooldown. Say when you're attacking a walker, you are free to stick around until you see an enemy because you know 100% you will get away.

You can cross lanes at high speeds for a terrific duration, joining a fight or making a 2v1 you had no business being involved in, and that popping out as a surprise.

You can break boxes now! Which is crazy! Which means your 3 minute box farming with Ava gives you a big boost in landing souls at the cost of no creeps.

Often you can ult into ava as a getaway mid fight as well.

It's just crazy useful.

 

[micbenso66]

If you check the Calico discord channel, Ava is everyones favorite ability. The build ive been doing is a MS one so that by mid game, I can cross the map in a few seconds. By late game, im so fast no one can get away from me, catch me without significant cc, or stop me from splitting to push to end. Literally walking into their base to poke down structures then Ava away.

On top of this, the change that allows you to break boxes while in ava is super good and lets you do paths to hit them all up and box farm in between waves, leaving camps for your team.

The only part of Ava that is underwhelming is T3. By the time i get it, its really kinda meh and I probably have fortitude anyways. But I am not sure what you would even replace it with. Its a utility ability and is fine as is.

Her 2 is clunky I agree. They will fix that eventually but right now Im not worried about it because fixing her 2 means she will be a broken character that is OP. Im already doing crazy things with her kit like fighting off 5 man pushes 1v5. Chasing people down to get kills that otherwise would survive, and split the map so hard that the other team literally cant react fast enough to stop me from taking something from them.

Calico is strong. Leave her alone or she will be OP.

 

[Skyp]

Just had a game with Calico who stayed in cat 99% of the time. Was pretty much unkillable. Even ran around inside our spawn barely taking any damage. Went 14/2/10 in 37min.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

Just had a game with Calico who stayed in cat 99% of the time. Was pretty much unkillable. Even ran around inside our spawn barely taking any damage. Went 14/2/10 in 37min.

View attachment 34739

looool

 

[micbenso66]

Just had a game with Calico who stayed in cat 99% of the time. Was pretty much unkillable. Even ran around inside our spawn barely taking any damage. Went 14/2/10 in 37min.

View attachment 34739

I did a build similar to this a couple days again and my game whent about like that too. I was super fast, healed a ton, and no one could catch me long enough to kill me while my bombs were doing half of peoples hp.

 

[Rosgath]

Honestly, I feel like it's incredibly bizarre that Ava can use items (Like Alchemical Fire) without breaking the form, but she can't use any abilities. Seems to me like an oversight.

 

[micbenso66]

Honestly, I feel like it's incredibly bizarre that Ava can use items (Like Alchemical Fire) without breaking the form, but she can't use any abilities. Seems to me like an oversight.

it probably is, but every one loves it so i dont see them changing it any time soon if at all.

 

[pardydardy]

I agree that the upgrade path for ava is a non-factor. It needs redone so that there is an incentive to level it

I completely disagree about how good the base ability is. It is borderline busted. It gives a terrific amount of escape even with the 5 second cooldown. Say when you're attacking a walker, you are free to stick around until you see an enemy because you know 100% you will get away.

You can cross lanes at high speeds for a terrific duration, joining a fight or making a 2v1 you had no business being involved in, and that popping out as a surprise.

You can break boxes now! Which is crazy! Which means your 3 minute box farming with Ava gives you a big boost in landing souls at the cost of no creeps.

Often you can ult into ava as a getaway mid fight as well.

It's just crazy useful.

^ all of this. im finding that if i build into movespeed + duration even slightly for Ava, i can be everywhere on the map at once.

OP, you might have a mismatched playstyle for calico?? who did you main before trying her out??

 

[PrivateTRE]

I agree that the upgrade path for ava is a non-factor. It needs redone so that there is an incentive to level it

I completely disagree about how good the base ability is. It is borderline busted. It gives a terrific amount of escape even with the 5 second cooldown. Say when you're attacking a walker, you are free to stick around until you see an enemy because you know 100% you will get away.

You can cross lanes at high speeds for a terrific duration, joining a fight or making a 2v1 you had no business being involved in, and that popping out as a surprise.

You can break boxes now! Which is crazy! Which means your 3 minute box farming with Ava gives you a big boost in landing souls at the cost of no creeps.

Often you can ult into ava as a getaway mid fight as well.

It's just crazy useful.

A 35% boost to speed is enough to invest 5 points into cat form in my opinion, and a 20s increase to duration ontop of it is just stellar.
the T3 needs a rework though, that is for sure.

 

[micbenso66]

A 35% boost to speed is enough to invest 5 points into cat form in my opinion, and a 20s increase to duration ontop of it is just stellar.
the T3 needs a rework though, that is for sure.

The cooldown is great but the HP/s is really meh. Not sure what that would be switched too that wouldnt just break her all together. I wouldnt mind slow resist or the ability to jump lol.

Which brings to mind, why cant we jump, its a dang cat. Thats what cats do.

 

[gmazonakis200370]

The cooldown is great but the HP/s is really meh. Not sure what that would be switched too that wouldnt just break her all together. I wouldnt mind slow resist or the ability to jump lol.

Which brings to mind, why cant we jump, its a dang cat. Thats what cats do.

Not sure what u talking about,but u can just normally jump,wall-jump and climb on wall,maybe u mean in Ava form jump height is low,but u can use items in Ava form.

 

[micbenso66]

Not sure what u talking about,but u can just normally jump,wall-jump and climb on wall,maybe u mean in Ava form jump height is low,but u can use items in Ava form.

You cant double jump, slide, dodge, or most of the other movement skills. It feels odd.

 

[Plasmabubble]

I agree that the upgrade path for ava is a non-factor. It needs redone so that there is an incentive to level it

I completely disagree about how good the base ability is. It is borderline busted. It gives a terrific amount of escape even with the 5 second cooldown. Say when you're attacking a walker, you are free to stick around until you see an enemy because you know 100% you will get away.

You can cross lanes at high speeds for a terrific duration, joining a fight or making a 2v1 you had no business being involved in, and that popping out as a surprise.

You can break boxes now! Which is crazy! Which means your 3 minute box farming with Ava gives you a big boost in landing souls at the cost of no creeps.

Often you can ult into ava as a getaway mid fight as well.

It's just crazy useful.

Thank you for your comments, everyone! It's lovely to see people talking about the new heroes in-depth.

I've played some more Calico, and now I completely agree with nathanieljbrill. The base ability is crazy useful, and the box-smashing is surprisingly good for keeping you efficiency up. It feels almost unfair that you can nuke an entire wave with cold front 100% safely, and the enemy never even knows you were there. Also, the lvl 1 upgrade doubling the duration is very tempting, but not required (great balancing imo). I definitely underestimated the importance of the small hitbox, the multiplicative movement speed boost, the huge duration, and the fact you can't get stunned out of it (like Infernus dash).
I still think the lvl 2 and 3 upgrades are pretty underwhelming, and are obvious "last choice" options unless you're building a cat support build.

Spirit snatch etc. DO work with your 2 - either the info I had was wrong, or they've updated it. Very happy to see that!

However, now I'm more frustrated than ever about the janky hitboxes on the 1 and 2! I don't buy the "she'd be too strong otherwise" arguments, because this would be a poor approach to balancing:
A well-designed character should (in general) respond predictably to your inputs, so that you can make decisions and manage risk with confidence. Re-committing to a fight with your 2, missing an enemy who's RIGHT THERE because they're 0.3545 mm below your character model, and then dying because you were relying on the heal, feels shit. If Calico is too strong, just nerf her damage and heal values! Compromising her consistency should be your last resort when balancing.

Good vibes only

 

[Plasmabubble]

^ all of this. im finding that if i build into movespeed + duration even slightly for Ava, i can be everywhere on the map at once.

OP, you might have a mismatched playstyle for calico?? who did you main before trying her out??

I main Wraith! Calico is a big change for me, that's for sure. Learning how to dive in and out of fights without just leaving my team to die has been tough (read: I'm shit)! However, I am pretty used to running around and split-pushing in safety.

 

[Rosgath]

A well-designed character should (in general) respond predictably to your inputs, so that you can make decisions and manage risk with confidence. Re-committing to a fight with your 2, missing an enemy who's RIGHT THERE because they're 0.3545 mm below your character model, and then dying because you were relying on the heal, feels shit. If Calico is too strong, just nerf her damage and heal values! Compromising her consistency should be your last resort when balancing.

Good vibes only

This is a key point on Calico.

Personally, I think she's still overtuned, and the biggest culprit is her 2. It's sick an incredibly risky ability due to the travel distance being longer than the attack radius.

I think Calico would be MUCH easier to use and players would feel she's less oppressive if the leap distance on her 2 was reduced by between .5 and 1m.

I'd also make her Gloom bombs do 35% damage for bombs 3+ on a target. When you consider the scaling on her bombs can get INCREDIBLY oppressive when you hit 4-6 of them you quickly realize how she does so much damage. (I think the scaling on gloom bombs is 1.6x? Add in that each additional bomb adds half that, which is .8 and hitting 4 bombs becomes 4.0x spirit scaling. That's monstrous on a 10s VD ability)

 

[Rosgath]

This is a key point on Calico.

Personally, I think she's still overtuned, and the biggest culprit is her 2. It's sick an incredibly risky ability due to the travel distance being longer than the attack radius.

I think Calico would be MUCH easier to use and players would feel she's less oppressive if the leap distance on her 2 was reduced by between .5 and 1m.

I'd also make her Gloom bombs do 35% damage for bombs 3+ on a target. When you consider the scaling on her bombs can get INCREDIBLY oppressive when you hit 4-6 of them you quickly realize how she does so much damage. (I think the scaling on gloom bombs is 1.6x? Add in that each additional bomb adds half that, which is .8 and hitting 4 bombs becomes 4.0x spirit scaling. That's monstrous on a 10s VD ability)

Nvm. I got the scaling on her bombs wrong. It's only .8 on the first bomb, and .4 for each subsequent bomb. Still pretty good scaling considering

 

[Дедлокер]

Ava is not useless(i dare to say even more powerfull than most people realize), but she is pretty underwhelming. Would love to see a bit of speed traded for mobility options. Maybe intead of double jumps you can add wall climb(with a timer on how long you can climb without touching the floor) anything just to make it more interesting than a speed bonus with a smaller hitbox(and map hide).

 

[micbenso66]

That's monstrous on a 10s VD ability)

You can get it as low as 3 if you want.

 

[micbenso66]

Ava is not useless(i dare to say even more powerfull than most people realize), but she is pretty underwhelming. Would love to see a bit of speed traded for mobility options. Maybe intead of double jumps you can add wall climb(with a timer on how long you can climb without touching the floor) anything just to make it more interesting than a speed bonus with a smaller hitbox(and map hide).

I agree with this. I would like to see some verticality added to ava. I was getting stam on her but it feels wasted when i could just go 50 m/s as ava instead and cross the map faster than the teleporter and zip lines can.

But the lack of verticality to ava feels strange. Its a cat. Cats are known for climbing things.

That being said, on most ledges that you can reach, ava already does a weird wall climb thing. So just extend the distance she can climb.