Buffing bebop's gun range in laning stage

[jackolope]

I play as a solo player about 95% of the time, so I often get solo lanes. Infernus, Haze, Grey Talon, Vindicta, Paradox are just the shortlist of characters that can abuse the fact that if you get creeps pushed onto your tower, you cannot even shoot at them from the cover points while they stand on top the bridge chipping you down. They might as well be mooning you and doing fortnite dances to taunt.

Seriously, I have one chance to punish them with a max range hook (likely only if I invest the 3 points for extra range) every 23 seconds. Now that bomb damage stacking in laning stage is pretty much gone, wouldn't it make sense to change this? I'm not sure what exactly I'm supposed to be doing if the creeps are going to take off hundreds of health points if I go near them to try to punish it; I have to back up another meter or so behind cover which is exactly what makes the weapon not reach.

The damage fall off range could be adjusted to be 80% of the range or something.

I don't feel like I'm alone in this thought. Maybe I'm shopping at the wrong time, maybe I really deserve to get pushed under tower for 3-4 minutes for dying once because I messed up a roll into a wall/statue when backing up. But it doesn't feel like it's close to an "even" chance for me to win the lane vs these characters, predicated entirely on those players abusing attack range and forcing you to throw random max range hooks for 10 minutes straight.

What do you guys think?

 

[offsetcyan]

These characters are just the best at laning. Lady Geist has a 12 round revolver, it has alright damage and velocity but slow fire speed, slow reloads, and this makes it hard to secure souls against any of those characters, let alone steal them. It's not really fair and I hope at least Talon's 1 and Vindicta's primary fire are nerfed, but worst comes to worst you have to swap lanes or play out the first few minutes pushed back.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

i dont think bb gun being weak in lane is a thing, yes in solo you get ranged, and its the best they can do because as bb you are also tryign to get hooks into the hg for damage. there isnt a weapon yet that beats bb in secure so everyone else would disagree with this statement, if he suffers in solo is by contrast being force to melee in duos because its very much up to the buffer the secure gets over denier to get the souls and that's scary to go close to beep +1,

haze should not push you, vindicta should not push you. those are 2 characters that are quite fragile in solo and beep has innate sprint to get very long dash jumps to get to them.

But most importantly he is really made for a duo lane, hook damage is low so its mostly set up, can bomb someone else and lane has a lot more secure spots to hide and secure souls.

also you are aware you have the hardest hitting nuke level 1 if you dont consider standing in infernus fire or smth. shouldnt the strat be bomb melee and rush the others and they can't fight you now, you have better geist bomb... you should outpush people and bully them with best gun and sight lines. Paradox bomb is 6m, beep is 12.

I don't think he's the best solo but his weapon downside is the breathing room when you cannot get 1 orb and are feeding 40% (before 50%) of your income to him.

 

[jackolope]

i dont think bb gun being weak in lane is a thing, yes in solo you get ranged, and its the best they can do because as bb you are also tryign to get hooks into the hg for damage. there isnt a weapon yet that beats bb in secure so everyone else would disagree with this statement, if he suffers in solo is by contrast being force to melee in duos because its very much up to the buffer the secure gets over denier to get the souls and that's scary to go close to beep +1,

haze should not push you, vindicta should not push you. those are 2 characters that are quite fragile in solo and beep has innate sprint to get very long dash jumps to get to them.

But most importantly he is really made for a duo lane, hook damage is low so its mostly set up, can bomb someone else and lane has a lot more secure spots to hide and secure souls.

also you are aware you have the hardest hitting nuke level 1 if you dont consider standing in infernus fire or smth. shouldnt the strat be bomb melee and rush the others and they can't fight you now, you have better geist bomb... you should outpush people and bully them with best gun and sight lines. Paradox bomb is 6m, beep is 12.

I don't think he's the best solo but his weapon downside is the breathing room when you cannot get 1 orb and are feeding 40% (before 50%) of your income to him.

You see how you're agreeing with me that it's not really that playable solo. The problem is being pushed into by these heroes faster than I can depush, while being chipped at if I hit creeps. If I use bomb+melee to quick depush you know I am losing half of the soul orbs everytime because they are all overhead and the enemy is free to watch me defend. (The enemy can literally hit me for free when I'm going for melees and angling to secure orbs, why wouldn't they do this, and it really adds up. I'm really only asking for the gun range to reach them, not do full damage. Enough to dissuade enemies from just taking every situation in lane however they feel, as long as it's over 30m away at all times.

Recently the hook was nerfed to hook creeps, so they can just stand behind a creep and hit me for free while I have to try to track them with a delayed windup primary that cannot do comparable DPS in the window they are peeking and trading. It's not even close to even in terms of opportunities to trade.

Also, you can't bomb someone if they just stand away from you...

These characters are just the best at laning. Lady Geist has a 12 round revolver, it has alright damage and velocity but slow fire speed, slow reloads, and this makes it hard to secure souls against any of those characters, let alone steal them. It's not really fair and I hope at least Talon's 1 and Vindicta's primary fire are nerfed, but worst comes to worst you have to swap lanes or play out the first few minutes pushed back.

It's not even the first few minutes that are the problem, that's usually the best time I find to probe for weaknesses and their play and try to annoy them/train them to react like you in fighting games. It's pretty much all after the first few minutes, tbh. All the poking adds up and when you try to healing rite it off it really is not hard to dive someone in their shop now.

In my experience (with these kind of matchups+laning meta) you either depush very carefully and don't make major mistakes like running out of stamina, buying healing rite vs guaranteed chippers like infernus and time it's use carefully, or you lose so much hp and farm that you will have to play with other people for the next 10 minutes just to find a way back into the game. Not a lot in between. It literally comes down to how comfortable the enemy is with being able to cross the bridge in the middle of the lane and just keep pelting you and your creeps with near impunity.

Maybe this is all more of a matchmaking issue/ player gamesense will improve in general games so I don't need to grind 1000 games to play with people more willing to rotate when asked (someone told me to kms last week in one of these lanes where I was up 3 kills), but it's also the game choosing to place me in that lane, team, game, etc. Idk. Fingers crossed a dev reads this.

 

[draquila]

Bebop's gun is balanced entirely by its short range. It would be impossible to contest souls against him if it was any bigger.