66th Street's Six Point Sale (Item Collection)

[thatfunkedude]

​

Dear Curiosity Shop Benefactors,

Last Sunday I was attending what I had initially believed to be the Brichestural Cultural Parade. Turns out: it wasn't a parade at all. It was actually a migrating mass of two-hundred-odd men stitched together in a massive fuselage of black tar and blue collars. Personally I'd take that view over a Bichester float any day; and the folk on 66th seemed to agree 'cause they were outright ecstatic to be assimilated.

Let me tell ya, I saw fellas tossing their worldly possessions left and right all willy nilly as they leaped head-first into a quilt of ceaseless flesh marred in blissful anguish. Talk about right place right time! So I procured these abandoned wares and made them my own, which is the best kind of possession! (No offense to any body squatters.)

I tried to resell these goods to the man-slug-conglomerate but they responded "Errim Fal Glaaki Teau-tus" in unison. And since I don't haggle with hivemind physalia off of principle, today's your lucky day. Give these fresh new items a looksie-- Just don't hold 'em before you pay. Can't have ya running off with these. I mean it. These items turn fast people slow and turn slow people fast. One of 'em even fell directly out of the beast's eyestalk! Careful touching that. The city already has ONE all consuming monolith assimilating it's inhabitants (two counting the worker's union). It don't need any more.

Less crashing, more dashing!

An un-natural disaster.​

What's yours is mine and
what's mine is your demise.

Slide responsibly through crosswalks
and avoid contact with wet concrete.
​

The best way to get away from
someone is to slam DIRECTLY into 'em!

If you can't stop the assimilation, then try
the next best thing: expanding the assimilation.

​

Dear Patron,

I've got a few Auntie's back in Brichester that I promised to send videos to last Sunday. Specifically, video of my cousin Snuffy playing the tenor horn in his marching band "The Janissaries". Regarding my Boon: I'd like you to go back in time and get rid of Snuffy's hands so that he never picks up an instrument. That guy can't hit a high C to save his life. Or his hands.

Yours truly, [name illegible]

 

[JeffGeneral]

Snail trail epic

 

[nathanieljbrill]

Keep cooking. You have both good item ideas and amazing visuals.

 

[JeffGeneral]

Snail trail epic

Maybe too cheap

 

[thatfunkedude]

Maybe too cheap

There is a scenario where the item is pushed up to 4250 and have it build out of a 1,250 item I think. It would probably look something like this:

Stamina Stun (1,250)​

+10% stamina recovery +1 Move Speed​

Passive: your bullets apply -30% stamina recovery to enemies.​

This would build into Snail Trail (4,250) and it would give people a cheaper counterplay to stamina-based items like the ones in OP. I appreciate the feedback!

I feel 6200 would be too steep of an investment for a counterplayable ability (since smart enemies will be forced to jump or climb to avoid the slime). I chose 3000 because it's comparable to knockdown or alchemical fire because it forces enemies to adapt their positioning while not providing any certainty of value since it can be counterpositioned. That said, I do agree it may be worth bumping it up in value since it could be pretty destructive in the right teamfight

 

[Gabeyboy321]

How did you make all the item cards? is it a template + image editor? or something else?

 

[thatfunkedude]

How did you make all the item cards? is it a template + image editor? or something else?

It's all from scratch in photoshop. No template, just a colored box with some text thrown on top and then manual formatting.

 

[shkeako]

Am in favor of more stamina based items, because of how good movement is in this game. Also, its been more than a year, are you cooking something??

 

[gibnewitems]

Nice visuals. Unfortunately, it's gonna take a lot more than pretty dressing in order to make a good item that I agree with.

I actually reviewed your legworker item before. I said it was pretty neat, with some reservations. It seems like you combined the original 1250 item with some aspects of the upgraded concept. I already had doubts about 20% weapon damage being way too high for a vitality item. 40%??? That's way too much for a t2 vitality. Combat barrier is already a very popular buy since it provides 22% more weapon damage just for being shielded. A vitality item that did just that, but 40% and just for sliding? That item would be meta overnight.

I am reading the other items right now. I will write another post when ready.

 

[gibnewitems]

Breathless escape seems strong, if a little boring. 125 hp and 12 spirit is a really big statline for 1250 souls. The first passive looks quite busted as well.

Even for 3000 souls, cyclone's active is just too good. I could see this item being very contentious in pro play. Seems more fitting for a hero ultimate instead of an accessible 3000 soul item.

Ammo harvester looks to be very aids to fight against, even with the below-average stat line. Withering whip has already had to have been nerfed and buffed and nerfed again in just a few months since firerate slows are quite strong and feel unfair to fight against on some heroes. A withering whip that also reduces their magazine? Yeah, no thanks.

I think you should know just how dominant knockdown is right now in both organized play and solo queue. Orange knockdown that also refunds stamina and has almost half the cooldown? Hell no.

Slime trail doesn't seem interesting, so I am not gonna comment.

 

[thatfunkedude]

I already had doubts about 20% weapon damage being way too high for a vitality item. 40%??? That's way too much for a t2 vitality. Combat barrier is already a very popular buy since it provides 22% more weapon damage just for being shielded. A vitality item that did just that, but 40% and just for sliding? That item would be meta overnight.

it's not 40% just for sliding, it's up to 40% over time during an extended slide. The entire idea is that the longer your slide goes, the more your damage ramps up. The passive is also on a cooldown meaning you're only getting this buff every 15 seconds, so only every 5th or 6th slide.

If you rattle off one shot early into a slide, you're realistically doing +15% damage. if you land a couple, that ramps up to 30%. if you empty your entire clip, the tail end of it will deal 40%. Hardly any different from the total of 40% you get from long range, only you're getting on a more situational basis.

I don't think cyclone is too good, since it's designed to be dashable and doesn't deal damage. Biggest flaw is potential for massive lane freeze by stalling out waves. But you can already do that by throwing down a single turret in a lane.

You say ammo harvester looks like aids but the meta as we speak is haze returning to prevalance specifically because someone teleporting into your face with a full clip is entirely viable. I think the item is a fair way of denying that without being outright unfair to fight because it can only ever drain a third of the clip. I really don't see how having your clip drained a third is more aids than being stunned for 5 seconds, slowed to half speed, displaced under a guardian, cursed, silenced or bombed for half health.

Knockdown is dominant because it's extremely easy to apply with a generous range and quick cast. My item isn't a generous range, isn't a quick cast, requires you to get point blank with an enemy, and requires the mechanical skill to actually slide through a moving opponent. Not even comparable in the slightest.

I appreciate the feedback anyways.

 

[gibnewitems]

it's not 40% just for sliding, it's up to 40% by ramping up consecutive shots during a slide.

...which is a lot easier to hit since the item gives more slide distance as a baseline (10%) and conditionally for hitting shots (90%). Hitting shots while sliding isn't exactly hard (it's actually quite expected), especially for most bullet carries.

The passive is also on a cooldown meaning you're only getting this buff every 15 seconds

...which is still lower than combat barrier's recharge rate, even with some shield health still intact.

Keep in mind that combat barrier is quite strong and popular at 22%. Any item that could grant more than double the percent weapon damage that most weapon items in it's price range is going to (at best) be skirting the line between being fair and being broken, regardless of whatever conditional that weapon damage is gated on.

 

[supremejester28]

Damn. High amount of effort. Good job!

 

[gibnewitems]

Damn. High amount of effort. Good job!

100%. Wished a little more thought was put into designing the items.

 

[thatfunkedude]

...which is a lot easier to hit since the item gives more slide distance as a baseline (10%) and conditionally for hitting shots (90%). Hitting shots while sliding isn't exactly hard (it's actually quite expected), especially for most bullet carries.

...which is still lower than combat barrier's recharge rate, even with some shield health still intact.

Keep in mind that combat barrier is quite strong and popular at 22%. Any item that could grant more than double the percent weapon damage that most weapon items in it's price range is going to (at best) be skirting the line between being fair and being broken, regardless of whatever conditional that weapon damage is gated on.

Something not being hard doesn't mean it's not a skill, and a form of skill expression to accomplish. Sliding directly at somebody involves risk and sliding directly away from somebody involves damage falloff. Sliding in any more complex fashion than those requires technical skill in itself. Running someone straight down for the 40% ramp also forces you to move in a single direction to where your target could logically dash where you approached from and create certain distance from you, since you have to stand up and dash back to chase (ending your boosted slide). Maybe the numbers could be pulled down to 25% damage and 60% slide distance.

I really fail to see how any of these issues make the item inherently unintuitive to balance. It sounds like you disagree with the scaling on the item but instead of suggesting any ways to improve it you're just speaking about it like it's unsalvagable. I totally disagree.

Keep in mind that combat barrier is quite strong and popular at 22%. Any item that could grant more than double the percent weapon damage that most weapon items in it's price range is going to (at best) be skirting the line between being fair and being broken, regardless of whatever conditional that weapon damage is gated on.

Combat barrier isn't a conditional 8-seconds-of-use damage buff. It's a full time conditional as long as you have shield. You aren't having to DO anything to receive that 22% and as long as you have shield it doesn't go away. Once again, I don't see the comparison at all. You're looking soley at the numbers and not actually factoring how often these numbers are being applied or what context they're being used in. Yes, 40% is a big number. It's also a controlled variable. You have to deal damage to ramp it up; so require a large amount of damage to actually reach 40%.

 

[gibnewitems]

Something not being hard doesn't mean it's not a skill

Agreed. Doesn't detract from the fact that the execution tradeoff involved with your concept isn't anywhere near high enough to offset how powerful it is.

Sliding directly at somebody involves risk

Sliding directly at someone to burst them down with infinite ammo is incredibly common in all levels of play. People do it all the time within lane and during team fights, both early and late. I don't think anybody outside of fresh installs are gonna have a problem reaching the maximum weapon damage bonus.

It sounds like you disagree with the scaling on the item but instead of suggesting any ways to improve it you're just speaking about it like it's unsalvagable.

I literally said that the first version of this item that I reviewed was pretty fine, just a little strong numbers wide. Not only have you not addressed this, you've added more stats from a scrapped upgrade to the item, while also doubling the weapon damage bonus. You don't seem to be doing very much to salvage this design. I don't know how many shots it would take to fully stack the weapon damage bonus. It could be 1% per bullet, or 10%. Despite my best efforts, I don't read minds. Would've been very handy if you included this incredibly important information.

You're looking soley at the numbers

Don't include numbers if you're not ready to face scrutiny for those numbers.

 

[thatfunkedude]

Agreed. Doesn't detract from the fact that the execution tradeoff involved with your concept isn't anywhere near high enough to offset how powerful it is.

Sliding directly at someone to burst them down with infinite ammo is incredibly common in all levels of play. People do it all the time within lane and during team fights, both early and late. I don't think anybody outside of fresh installs are gonna have a problem reaching the maximum weapon damage bonus.

I literally said that the first version of this item that I reviewed was pretty fine, just a little strong numbers wide. Not only have you not addressed this, you've added more stats from a scrapped upgrade to the item, while also doubling the weapon damage bonus. You don't seem to be doing very much to salvage this design. I don't know how many shots it would take to fully stack the weapon damage bonus. It could be 1% per bullet, or 10%. Despite my best efforts, I don't read minds. Would've been very handy if you included this incredibly important information.

Don't include numbers if you're not ready to face scrutiny for those numbers.

Thank you for the feedback.

 

[trackpadchad]

I respect the effortposts, and you do have really fun and interesting ideas here, but these items have issues beyond balance numbers that give them trouble fitting in the game; the only exceptions to this (with asterisks) are Cyclone, and Legworker. This is a very boring sick day for me and I have nothing better to do, so I'm gonna write all my nitpicks with these items. I'm not gonna focus too much on the balance numbers because you can't really improve that beyond basic sanity checks without actual playtesting.

Breathless Escape​

This is an awkward one, and for reasons you wouldn't expect. It also feels like you don't have a clear vision for what you want from this item. I think the main issue here is that it's a T2 item, and for characters with large stamina pools like Ivy and Viper, this would give you solid mobility and survivability for the low price of one T2 item. It would be very hard to find a spot where the stacks give reasonable strength without the item being a waste of space for characters without above average stamina pools.

• Having dash distance change with stamina would make movement clumsier, especially when you consider abilities like Alchemical Flask. Consistency goes a long way.
• How would dash distance be implemented? Would it increase the dash's base speed, or would it extend the dash's duration? If it increases speed, how would that interact with dash jumping, or abilities that preserve dash momentum like Puddle Punch?
• The item encourages you to stack stamina items, which would make the 20s passive less relevant. However, at the same time, having a mobility buff after gassing out would reinforce wasteful movement and stamina usage; basically, it's an item that encourages you to play worse.
• The 20s passive wouldn't feel good with your other item ideas of draining stamina. If you were to try intentionally triggering the buff and suddenly someone kills your last stamina bar, it wouldn't feel responsive even if you were at fault. Basically, optimal gameplay with this would be to forget the buff exists.

Cyclone​

Honestly, I really like this idea. It would change the way you approach the map in a way that's interesting. The difficult part would be to implement the push effect in a way that's fun while still being a threat, and in a way that wouldn't just brick or trap certain characters.

Imagine using cyclone not as a bullet wall, but as a way to shoot around corners or cover. What if you could surf the push effect to slingshot yourself? This item might just be a horrible Pandora's Box, but the potential is there.

Ammo Harvester​

Overpowered, and would be awful to play against. Bullet stealing would inevitably have the issue where it would be difficult to tell the receiving player that their clip is being drained without some kind of feedback/cue, but this game is already heavy on mental bandwidth; it would basically be more clutter for the fire.

• The +Fire rate, +Lifesteal, and and active effect would arguably make this at the level of a T4 item, but there would be no point in grabbing this over the other T4s
• It's a winners keep winning item, and bullet hose heroes are already eating well in this department.

Legworker​

Not bad, this could actually work (obviously with some stat tweaks if necessary). The stats make it feel like it should be an orange item, but there's already an abundance of orange slidey items.
There is one potential caveat, and it's how slide distance works. It's a timer where sliding too long increases friction dramatically, and the timer is reset when moving down a slope or gaining speed (the slope part might be wrong; too lazy to verify). Items that increase slide distance just extend the timer before the friction penalty applies. Basically, stacking slide distance on hit might be jankier than what you'd expect on paper.

Kinetic Impact​

I'm assuming that "disorient" is open to interpretation because having a stun like that would be horrendous. You can dash slide instantly with enough knowledge and practice, which means this item is effectively an Abrams jumpscare in a can. It's not as difficult as you'd think to slide into people; sliding gives excellent turning control, and you can always just dash slide into them point blank. I don't think having something like a minimum distance before it's active would work either, it would just give you a different problem to worry about.
Besides, you probably know by now just how cursed Valve hitreg can be; the monkey's paw may curl its finger with this item.

Snail Trail​

This item would be awful to fight against if you put it on characters like Warden, Infernus, Shiv, Viscous, and so on. Also, it would have clutter issues much like Ammo Harvester. Maybe it could work if you just remove the stamina consumption? Also the stealing stamina part is just... way too much. I feel like giving an item this much things going on would give Yugioh a run for its money. Imagine playing with your newbie friend and they asked you what the hell an item does, and you have to thump a textbook onto the table instead of using 4-6 caveman words.

 

[Geneva]

Nice visuals. Unfortunately, it's gonna take a lot more than pretty dressing in order to make a good item that I agree with.

Breathless escape seems strong, if a little boring.

A withering whip that also reduces their magazine? Yeah, no thanks.

Slime trail doesn't seem interesting, so I am not gonna comment.

100%. Wished a little more thought was put into designing the items.

I don't think anybody outside of fresh installs are gonna have a problem reaching the maximum weapon damage bonus.

Don't include numbers if you're not ready to face scrutiny for those numbers.

Do you understand how rude and unconstructive these comments are? If you want people to listen to your feedback, stop acting like this.

 

[gibnewitems]

Do you understand how rude and unconstructive these comments are? If you want people to listen to your feedback, stop acting like this.

That's for the OP and Valve to decide, not an unrelated third party.