3200 Green "Persisting Magic"

[spacemancer]

-10% Weapon Damage
+10% Ability Duration
Passive: Your damage over time effects are 20% resistant to being cleansed.

 

[adeptusforgeceo]

What does resistance to being cleansed mean in this case? Does it mean that after being purged a portion of them still exists on the character that purged them? Feels like it partially defeats the point of having a purge like dispel magic, and it completely fucks over Victor, who uses his purge to get out of heal-cut effects like Spirit Burn or DoT + Healbane effects.

Also not a big fan of how uninteractive this is. It basically takes no effort to proc since its an entirely passive effect, and doesn't provide any counterplay back to those being hit by the DoT. Even something as heavy-handed as Curse has counterplay.

 

[spacemancer]

What does resistance to being cleansed mean in this case? Does it mean that after being purged a portion of them still exists on the character that purged them? Feels like it partially defeats the point of having a purge like dispel magic, and it completely fucks over Victor, who uses his purge to get out of heal-cut effects like Spirit Burn or DoT + Healbane effects.

Also not a big fan of how uninteractive this is. It basically takes no effort to proc since its an entirely passive effect, and doesn't provide any counterplay back to those being hit by the DoT. Even something as heavy-handed as Curse has counterplay.

So if you have a DoT, then when you use victor 2 or dispel magic there is a 20% chance of the DoT ignoring the cleanse altogether, regardless of stacks, since the cleanse removes all stacks regardless.

Victor does not need help, if anything people in low elo lobbies and in late game scenarios have no idea how to deal with a fed victor, usually they cant. From the perspective of a character that is DoT centric like Haze, Infernus, or Shiv. Dispel magic seems uninteractive because it completely counters the character. So this is giving them counterplay. If anything this item is bad because outside of an RNG effect it gives no stats but the un-interactivity is irrelevant.

 

[adeptusforgeceo]

Oh, its a 20% chance of completely ignoring a purge effect? Yeah no I am not a fan of this item at all. It was already bad enough when it was a percentage of the effect purged-meaning infernus burn doesn't get stopped at all if he's still shooting you. Having it be a random chance to completely ignore a purge isn't just severely unbalanced, but less interesting and less useful than the purge effects you're complaining about.

If an enemy doesn't have a purge effect and instead has debuff resistance out the ass, this effect does NOTHING.
Even if they have a purge, 80% of the time, this passive still does nothing. This means on average, 1 out of every 5 times someone uses dispel magic this item will do anything at all.
You're spending 3200 souls on an item that has inconsistent usefulness & no counterplay at best. At worst, this item is a lump of coal sitting in the player's inventory, reducing their weapon damage for no benefit (oh, my bad, +10% ability duration).

I can fully understand wanting to counter things you're not a fan of in this game, but I can't help but feel if you were trying to design something like that, that you should head back to the drawing board and start again from scratch with a new concept.

 

[spacemancer]

Oh, its a 20% chance of completely ignoring a purge effect? Yeah no I am not a fan of this item at all. It was already bad enough when it was a percentage of the effect purged-meaning infernus burn doesn't get stopped at all if he's still shooting you. Having it be a random chance to completely ignore a purge isn't just severely unbalanced, but less interesting and less useful than the purge effects you're complaining about.

If an enemy doesn't have a purge effect and instead has debuff resistance out the ass, this effect does NOTHING.
Even if they have a purge, 80% of the time, this passive still does nothing. This means on average, 1 out of every 5 times someone uses dispel magic this item will do anything at all.
You're spending 3200 souls on an item that has inconsistent usefulness & no counterplay at best. At worst, this item is a lump of coal sitting in the player's inventory, reducing their weapon damage for no benefit (oh, my bad, +10% ability duration).

I can fully understand wanting to counter things you're not a fan of in this game, but I can't help but feel if you were trying to design something like that, that you should head back to the drawing board and start again from scratch with a new concept.

youre really taking this personally huh lol

 

[adeptusforgeceo]

youre really taking this personally huh lol

Uhh no. There's a lot of very salient reasons I gave why this item is bad both for the person building it and the people playing against it. Sorry if it came off as rude, but you really need to take another attempt at the concept if you want more interesting counterplay to DoT effects.

 

[spacemancer]

Uhh no. There's a lot of very salient reasons I gave why this item is bad both for the person building it and the people playing against it. Sorry if it came off as rude, but you really need to take another attempt at the concept if you want more interesting counterplay to DoT effects.

Everything we post here is data for the devs to take in. I don't need to go back to the drawing board because our purpose is to just feed information for them and they will filter it accordingly.

I called my own item bad, I am aware most of it is not great, the purpose is to shift their data to say "players might want counterplay to DoT heavy heros getting dispelled". If they never do anything about it, cool, I trust in their vision, if they do, maybe I contributed. Either way I love this game and I'm happy to post my ideas on here.

 

[ReportingBugs]

youre really taking this personally huh lol

I muted him for a reason. "you really need to take another attempt" lmfao, what, they are your parent or something? Absolutely patronising.

Anyways, -10% weapon damage is harsh, and 10% ability duration is a bit on the weak side. The whole idea sounds like from what you are describing is covered by Plated armor.

I like the idea of a T3 green where every damage instance is reduced by a flat amount. Per boon, going from -2 to -20 after resistance. That would be nice, what you think?

So pair that with 20% ability duration, 125 health, with reducing damage from -2 to -20 (scaling with boon) for every damage instance flat, after resistances. What you think?

 

[ReportingBugs]

I muted him for a reason. "you really need to take another attempt" lmfao, what, they are your parent or something? Absolutely patronising.

Anyways, -10% weapon damage is harsh, and 10% ability duration is a bit on the weak side. The whole idea sounds like from what you are describing is covered by Plated armor.

I like the idea of a T3 green where every damage instance is reduced by a flat amount. Per boon, going from -2 to -20 after resistance. That would be nice, what you think?

So pair that with 20% ability duration, 125 health, with reducing damage from -2 to -20 (scaling with boon) for every damage instance flat, after resistances. What you think?

To add onto my idea, a "damage instance" is whatever pops up as a singular number increase when during damage.

The item could involve something to do involving Gargoles, and moss, perhaps a hint to Ivy's race?

 

[ironarcanine]

So if you have a DoT, then when you use victor 2 or dispel magic there is a 20% chance of the DoT ignoring the cleanse altogether, regardless of stacks, since the cleanse removes all stacks regardless.

Victor does not need help, if anything people in low elo lobbies and in late game scenarios have no idea how to deal with a fed victor, usually they cant. From the perspective of a character that is DoT centric like Haze, Infernus, or Shiv. Dispel magic seems uninteractive because it completely counters the character. So this is giving them counterplay. If anything this item is bad because outside of an RNG effect it gives no stats but the un-interactivity is irrelevant.

I understand what you're going for.

I would make the case that RNG is functionally a needless component of this item, there is no reason for it to only work 20% of the time, it essentially removes the skill/thought element because this isn't RNG that can be played around (for example, bashes in dota 2 are pseudo RNG and you can build up a bash on unimportant targets to have a high chance of bashing early later), it simply either works or it doesn't.

The alternative is to simply make it so that 20% of the debuff duration remains after cleansing, so that not the entire debuff is cleansed. This item is essentially a counter to a counter, because dispel magic will completely remove something like shiv's dagger bleeds and there isn't really a way for shiv to deal with this outside of just landing more of his quite limited daggers that are tricky to land, and this would provide a small timeframe in which for him to extend/reapply the debuff upon anticipating that the opponent would simply cleanse the buff in plain sight without thought.

This is the only character upon which I think an actual meaningful interaction might be forced (making the dispeller have to LoS/wait for a reapplication before cleansing a bleed to avoid being immediately bled again). For other characters and items, all this would essentially be paying x souls for about 0.5 seconds more on a disarm/slow *specifically if it gets cleansed*, which would not really be valuable enough to justify an item slot unless it were significantly stronger. If it were significantly stronger, it would become quite an issue as you now have an item to purchase that functionally deletes counterplay from your character which is somewhat unhealthy for the game.

It also is only causing the main effect of the item to work if your opponent purchased the workaround, which means that the item is mostly dead weight outside of that scenario.

If a character buys an item that cleanses debuffs, that item should within reason cleanse debuffs. Removing the capacity for it to do so makes the purchases feel less meaningful and counterplay more hopeless. Other avenues should be explored to make the interactions more meaningful. While it is possible for characters to build in a way that can shut you down specifically, it is a team game and you are providing a huge benefit to your team by forcing the enemy to make these purchases.