Tesla Bullets adjustment suggestion

[OG3]

So, it was pointed out to me (and others) on the discord that Tesla Bullets is not great for Seven since he only experiences half of the benefit of a Fire Rate buff, due to being locked to a burst-fire weapon.

While I think it is still great for him for activating Escalating Exposure stacks, this got me thinking after taking a proper look at the skill:

The effect and the FR bonus work against each other.

If TB works on a 0.34 second cooldown, firing more bullets per second means that fewer bullets will be be imbued, as more bullets are fired during the cooldown period. An increased fire rate is detrimental to BT proccing.

I'd recommend (or, would like to see) one of two changes to it:

Either
a) Change how TB works, perhaps by having it trigger every 3rd bullet like Seven's 3 skill. This would allow FR buffs to work alongside the skill.
b) Change the bonus attached to TB from a FR bonus to an Ammo bonus. While this wouldn't fix the poor interaction between FR and TB, it would at least ensure that the skill is not working against itself.

I'd also like to note that Mystic Shot suffers from a similar problem due to being on a cooldown timer, but at least that skill does not have a FR buff attached to it.

 

[Rosgath]

Having it fire every 3rd bullet just to align with Seven feels... weird. That aligns very oddly with Paradox since her bursts are 5 shots, too.

Personally, I could see TB having a certain number of "charges" per magazine with increased magazine size increasing the number of charges proportionally. Each time it goes off it consumes a charge and it has little to no need of a CD as the CD is built into reloading. This makes it so that you are always getting more or less the same benefit across all heroes though it might have unusual interactions with Melee Charge/Kinetic Dash/Arcane Surge.

The number of charges per magazine could be based on how long it takes the hero to empty their mag with no increased fire rate and the default CD of 0.34s with expected number of procs over that time period. For example, let pretend it takes Abrams 8 seconds to fire off his entire magazine with no addition RoF increases. His magazine has 8 shots, by default, and the expected procs on that would roughly be something around 8 (since it's 1 shot per second) so he would have 8 charges per magazine should he pick the item up. If he boosted his magazine size to 16 (+100%) then his charges/procs per magazine would instead increase to 16, regardless of his Fire rate.

 

[OG3]

Perhaps the cooldown could be scrapped entirely in exchange for a slightly decreased proc chance, then. It'd likely be a lot more straightforward than trying to balance for every magazine size.

 

[Rosgath]

Perhaps the cooldown could be scrapped entirely in exchange for a slightly decreased proc chance, then. It'd likely be a lot more straightforward than trying to balance for every magazine size.

Items like Toxic Bullets and Silencer already have different build up percentages based on each individual hero. This isn't out of the norm for items like this.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

The firerate makes sense 1. For flavor as the bullets are charged
And 2. Because many of the cast shoots let's than 3 bullets a second and even those that do probably won't hit all those bullets.

Therefore Tesla bullets should keep the fire rate.

 

[Rosgath]

Items like Toxic Bullets and Silencer already have different build up percentages based on each individual hero. This isn't out of the norm for items like this.

Actually, the more I think of it, the more I think that TB having a build up between casts just like Toxic Bullets and Silencer that builds up on the user instead of the person shot would probably work better than just some internal CD.

 

[OG3]

Actually, the more I think of it, the more I think that TB having a build up between casts just like Toxic Bullets and Silencer that builds up on the user instead of the person shot would probably work better than just some internal CD.

That's a good idea, actually. I'd support that.

The firerate makes sense 1. For flavor as the bullets are charged
And 2. Because many of the cast shoots let's than 3 bullets a second and even those that do probably won't hit all those bullets.

Therefore Tesla bullets should keep the fire rate.

It's not that the FR doesn't make sense, its that it actively works against TB. The faster your FR, the more bullets you shoot between cooldowns. As a result, you'd get more procs per magazine with a lower FR.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

That's a good idea, actually. I'd support that.

It's not that the FR doesn't make sense, its that it actively works against TB. The faster your FR, the more bullets you shoot between cooldowns. As a result, you'd get more procs per magazi

Same or more procs per second depending on character. Procs per magazine is not a relevant stat for something with a .3 second cooldown.

 

[OG3]

Same or more procs per second depending on character. Procs per magazine is not a relevant stat for something with a .3 second cooldown.

Of course. Procs per mag is just a metric I'm using to illustrate my point.

 

[IgorNL]

Just remove the 0.34s cooldown and the item is perfect.

 

[Rosgath]

Given the much greater emphasis the new map puts on farming jungle camps, I think Tesla Rounds is definitely in need of another balance pass

 

[OG3]

Just remove the 0.34s cooldown and the item is perfect.

This, or make it a 100% chance with a cooldown. Don't use both

 

[IgorNL]

This, or make it a 100% chance with a cooldown. Don't use both

It's also a good option but I prefer to remove the cooldown so that it benefits from its firerate bonus.

 

[Rosgath]

It's also a good option but I prefer to remove the cooldown so that it benefits from its firerate bonus.

Removing the CD would make it ultra Broken. Either too strong on Full-auto heroes or next to useless for slow base fire rate heroes.

The trigger rate should be paced out, but a proc rate isn't necessary.

 

[IgorNL]

Removing the CD would make it ultra Broken. Either too strong on Full-auto heroes or next to useless for slow base fire rate heroes.

The trigger rate should be paced out, but a proc rate isn't necessary.

The Tesla Bullets would be like the lucky shot but for spiritual damage.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

It's also a good option but I prefer to remove the cooldown so that it benefits from its firerate bonus.

IT DOES BENEFIT FROM FIRERATE! I don't remember who made that original post but they messed up. People need to stop saying that.

With a 0.35 second cooldown and 25% procrate you need a firerate of 1 bullet per 0.0875 seconds to an average get proc on cooldown. That's 11.4 bullets per second which is faster than 99% of the cast shoots. Even if you are getting your maximum procrate that doesn't mean you're getting LESS value it means you're getting MAXIMUM value.

 

[OG3]

IT DOES BENEFIT FROM FIRERATE! I don't remember who made that original post but they messed up. People need to stop saying that.

With a 0.35 second cooldown and 25% procrate you need a firerate of 1 bullet per 0.0875 seconds to an average get proc on cooldown. That's 11.4 bullets per second which is faster than 99% of the cast shoots. Even if you are getting your maximum procrate that doesn't mean you're getting LESS value it means you're getting MAXIMUM value.

So, my understanding of your argument is that an increased fire-rate increases the likelihood of a proc due to additional chances. Is that what you're saying?

That does make sense, but the cooldown still gets in the way. The fire-rate helps when the cooldown is not active, of course. When the cooldown is active, however, every bullet shot will not proc. Therefore, the faster your FR, the more bullets you fire that have 0% chance of proc.

If TB worked like Lucky Shot (no cooldown), I would agree completely that FR is only helpful. As long as it has a cooldown, it is only helpful half of the time.

 

[IgorNL]

Every 4 activations of the Tesla Bullets you have 1.28 seconds of inactivity, that's a lot.

 

[IgorNL]

The right thing to do would be to make it the same as the luck shot, 35% chance of activation and no cooldown.

 

[nathanieljbrill]

Lucky shot had a multiplicative effect, meaning it doesn't matter how fast you are shooting or how strong your bullets are, lucky shot affects your damage the same way.

Tesla bullets add flat damage. So no, Tesla bullets cannot work the same way as lucky shot, it needs a cooldown.