[T4 Upgrade] Decay -> Necrosis

[Aer]

While watching McGinnis and Victor do what they do best and seeing at how Decay alongside the supportive items that heal have fallen out of favor with the latest changes to how the game is played, I thought of a way to possibly make the former more useful while giving the latter a reason to be buffed.

I've always liked the idea of a malady that inverts the effects of healing into damage, and I think that could have a place in Deadlock if balanced well. Normally, I do "?" in the place of the numbers, but I felt a little brave this time—not to say that I want the developers to use my numbers. They're more than welcomed to change any of this as they see fit as I am no balancing expert.

I considered two methods to balance out spirit damage refreshing the debuff:

1. An "Immunity Duration".
2. Each tick of spirit damage adding a fixed amount of seconds to Necrosis's duration similarly to the changes made to Infernus's Afterburn.

(I want to credit @critamine for thinking of the build-up mechanic—potentially making this the very first "spirit damage build-up" item—and suggesting spirit damage over true damage for Healing Inversion. It was originally just an instant application with an immunity duration that dealt true damage for any inverted healing, and I like his idea much more. )

 

[Abandoned]

The name is almost certainly too directly referencing a medical condition.

How is "healing inversion" any different from "healing reduction" on paper? Can this effect ever kill someone? In what order to the effects apply? I.e. do you first reduce the healing, then invert it or do you invert the healing then reduce the remainder?

This item is far too vague and far too niche.

 

[Aer]

The name is almost certainly too directly referencing a medical condition.

This item is far too vague and far too niche.

I'm not sure why the name being similar to a medical condition is a problem. The root word is "necrotic" meaning "dead/dying tissue" that can't be restored—a word that is very common in tabletop RPGs such as "necrotic damage" dealt by most unholy sources.

How is "healing inversion" any different from "healing reduction" on paper? Can this effect ever kill someone? In what order to the effects apply? I.e. do you first reduce the healing, then invert it or do you invert the healing then reduce the remainder?

Healing Reduction reduces the potency of all incoming healing received during its duration. Healing Inversion, as explained within the thumbnail, turns a percentage of incoming healing received into spirit damage. As also mentioned in the thumbnail, no, it's not lethal.

Healing Inversion applies after Healing Reduction.

This item is far too vague and far too niche.

A lot of what you asked was explained in the item's description, while Healing Reduction is explained by the game itself. The only thing I've failed to mention was which should apply first, and it's perfectly fine for niche items to exist in Deadlock—Rebuttal being one of those items as an example.

Healing Inversion would have its niche use against enemy teams that have prioritized a lot of healing or have it baseline within their kits such as Abrams, Lady Geist, McGinnis, and Victor.

 

[Abandoned]

Just mechanically explaining what "healing inversion" does does not address the implied functional difference.

I can say: "turns some amount of healing into additional healing received" which would just be functionally equivalent to "increase healing effectiveness". Your effect seems functionally equivalent to "taking" 25% healing (assuming that is how it works, as it is incredibly vague as mentioned prior), then inducing 25% spirit damage. This effectively means 50% healing reduction not accounting for spirit resist. How is this mechanically interesting or justified over healing reduction?

 

[Aer]

Just mechanically explaining what "healing inversion" does does not address the implied functional difference.

Then it is a comprehension issue hence why it's good to ask questions. As explained, Healing Inversion inverts a portion of healing received into spirit damage taken. Healing Reduction reduces the effectiveness of healing—both received and dealt.

That's their difference: one turns the afflicted's healing received into spirit damage taken and the other weakens the afflicted's potency of healing dealt/received.

I can say: "turns some amount of healing into additional healing received" which would just be functionally equivalent to "increase healing effectiveness".

This is just Healing Effectiveness gained during ongoing healing and is a bad comparison to Healing Inversion. Your example is basically Lady Geist channeling Life Drain on someone, ally or enemy, near a shop she can use then buying Healing Booster halfway through the channel.

Healing Inversion has no effect on the afflicted's healing dealt—only received.

I can say: "turns some amount of healing into additional healing received" which would just be functionally equivalent to "increase healing effectiveness". Your effect seems functionally equivalent to "taking" 25% healing (assuming that is how it works, as it is incredibly vague as mentioned prior), then inducing 25% spirit damage. This effectively means 50% healing reduction not accounting for spirit resist.

It's really not that complicated, but I suppose I can break it down:

McGinnis places her Medicinal Dispenser, healing herself, her turrets, and her allies within its radius, but Lady Geist—who has Necrosis—throws a R3 Essence Bomb on top of Medicinal Dispenser, building up Necrosis on every enemy within her Essence Bomb's radius.

Being the brave souls that they are, McGinnis and her enemies stand their ground where Lady Geist attacked, which unfortunately allows Necrosis to build upon them. When its fully proc'd, 25% of the healing Medicinal Specter is granting its allies is now spirit damage being dealt to the afflicted.

Since it is spirit damage and not true damage, it can be mitigated by spirit resist, but that won't restore the healing that was inverted. It's simply gone.

How is this mechanically interesting

Being as it is Healing Inversion and not Healing Reduction, this will cause enemies afflicted with it to accidentally harm each other (if they are also afflicted) or harm themselves if they rely heavily upon innate/external healing or lifesteal. Also, it is damage technically being dealt by the afflicter of Necrosis.

If McGinnis' Medicinal Specter is now dealing 25% of its healing as spirit damage to her allies afflicted with Necrosis, the afflicter (Lady Geist) is technically the one dealing the spirit damage as the cause of the complication in the first place.

or justified over healing reduction?

It would prove useful against enemies with plenty of AoE healing that someone with offensive spirit AoEs, or can spread as much spirit damage as possible over time such as Infernus or specific item combinations for bullets, could turn against them to cause the afflicted to harm each other while also removing the amount of healing they could have received.

In duels, 1v1s, this item could be prove even more useful against Abrams, Victor, or another gunner heavily relying upon lifesteal, and Toxic Rounds would make it even more dangerous. If you want to reduce the potency of a heal, mainly those build to give outgoing healing, Decay is still within it as an active option alongside other items that inflict Healing Reduction.

Now, if the issue is that Healing Inversion may be too weak because it's applied after Healing Reduction, it could be reversed—Healing Inversion being applied to the full amount first then the remainder being reduced by Healing Reduction, if that has been applied as well. That would make Healing Inversion's spirit damage stronger, making debuff and spirit resist more important against it.

 

[Abandoned]

Within one sentence you made me not want to read anything you wrote down. I suppose that is a skill.

 

[micbenso66]

The name is almost certainly too directly referencing a medical condition.

How is "healing inversion" any different from "healing reduction" on paper? Can this effect ever kill someone? In what order to the effects apply? I.e. do you first reduce the healing, then invert it or do you invert the healing then reduce the remainder?

This item is far too vague and far too niche.

The damage would be effected by resistances and penetrations. And any effects that boost damage.

But to go along with your argument, it could have the heal reduction portion removed completely and replaced with the inversion instead at the higher amount (i.e. decay at -30% but necrosis at 45% instead). Keeping the original damage over time effect as well.

 

[micbenso66]

Then it is a comprehension issue hence why it's good to ask questions. As explained, Healing Inversion inverts a portion of healing received into spirit damage taken. Healing Reduction reduces the effectiveness of healing—both received and dealt.

That's their difference: one turns the afflicted's healing received into spirit damage taken and the other weakens the afflicted's potency of healing dealt/received.



This is just Healing Effectiveness gained during ongoing healing and is a bad comparison to Healing Inversion. Your example is basically Lady Geist channeling Life Drain on someone, ally or enemy, near a shop she can use then buying Healing Booster halfway through the channel.

Healing Inversion has no effect on the afflicted's healing dealt—only received.



It's really not that complicated, but I suppose I can break it down:

McGinnis places her Medicinal Dispenser, healing herself, her turrets, and her allies within its radius, but Lady Geist—who has Necrosis—throws a R3 Essence Bomb on top of Medicinal Dispenser, building up Necrosis on every enemy within her Essence Bomb's radius.

Being the brave souls that they are, McGinnis and her enemies stand their ground where Lady Geist attacked, which unfortunately allows Necrosis to build upon them. When its fully proc'd, 25% of the healing Medicinal Specter is granting its allies is now spirit damage being dealt to the afflicted.

Since it is spirit damage and not true damage, it can be mitigated by spirit resist, but that won't restore the healing that was inverted. It's simply gone.



Being as it is Healing Inversion and not Healing Reduction, this will cause enemies afflicted with it to accidentally harm each other (if they are also afflicted) or harm themselves if they rely heavily upon innate/external healing or lifesteal. Also, it is damage technically being dealt by the afflicter of Necrosis.

If McGinnis' Medicinal Specter is now dealing 25% of its healing as spirit damage to her allies afflicted with Necrosis, the afflicter (Lady Geist) is technically the one dealing the spirit damage as the cause of the complication in the first place.



It would prove useful against enemies with plenty of AoE healing that someone with offensive spirit AoEs, or can spread as much spirit damage as possible over time such as Infernus or specific item combinations for bullets, could turn against them to cause the afflicted to harm each other while also removing the amount of healing they could have received.

In duels, 1v1s, this item could be prove even more useful against Abrams, Victor, or another gunner heavily relying upon lifesteal, and Toxic Rounds would make it even more dangerous. If you want to reduce the potency of a heal, mainly those build to give outgoing healing, Decay is still within it as an active option alongside other items that inflict Healing Reduction.

Now, if the issue is that Healing Inversion may be too weak because it's applied after Healing Reduction, it could be reversed—Healing Inversion being applied to the full amount first then the remainder being reduced by Healing Reduction, if that has been applied as well. That would make Healing Inversion's spirit damage stronger, making debuff and spirit resist more important against it.

Another way it can be applied would be that the amount of healing that was reduced is applied as a damage over time instead. But that double dips the reduction of the effectiveness of healing. Which probably would ultimately make the item over powered.

I like the idea though. One potential solution would be to have the healing reduction from decay "upgraded" to inversion (needs a better name lol) and the amount increased from whatever decay is.

"Dealing spirit damage on a target builds up a healing inversion debuff. Once afflicted, the targets modified healing effectiveness is converted from healing to spirit damage over time by 30%."

Active: "Afflict target with damage over time at X% max hp Spirit damage per second for T seconds. Scaling with spirit." (no longer reduces heal effectiveness as its been upgraded into the inversion passive)

The active is kept for those heroes that use/need it like shiv and it is a way to purposefully activate the passive on a single target. However, this idea as a whole, still might be broken as it would be a different debuff and thus stack with other heal reduction items. So 30% of the pre-reduced heal is converted into damage, reducing its total effectiveness by 60% - resistances for the damage portion, then the remainder of the heal would be further reduced by other healing reduction items, lets say 30%. this essentially has the potential to reduce the effectiveness of a heal on a target up to 90% or more assuming these all stack additively. Then you have to add in heal booster. Does that come in before or after inversion? If before then the damage is technically increased by the heal booster amount as well (20%?). Thus making this 1 item counter multiple items and heros all at once, while also having the abilities to be boosted by the users kit/item choices.

Cool idea but the conversion would end up being very weak in order for the item not to be utterly broken.

 

[Aer]

Within one sentence you made me not want to read anything you wrote down. I suppose that is a skill.

It was made evident that reading comprehension wasn't your forte within your very first message to me, so what's new with this response but an admission?

More importantly, why would you not reading what I type matter to me in the first place when you can't constructively ask a question nor offer criticism/feedback like @micbenso66 did? Good riddance.

 

[Aer]

The damage would be effected by resistances and penetrations. And any effects that boost damage.

But to go along with your argument, it could have the heal reduction portion removed completely and replaced with the inversion instead at the higher amount (i.e. decay at -30% but necrosis at 45% instead). Keeping the original damage over time effect as well.

This was my main concern with this idea, as a few pointed out in the original version I didn't upload here.

Originally, it was 50% Healing Inversion that was applied instantly by spirit damage but was kept in check by an immunity duration. This dealt true damage instead of spirit damage, but with their feedback, I changed it to 25% with the build-up mechanic, no immunity duration (still considering this), and spirit damage instead of true damage to allow it to be mitigated.

One potential solution would be to have the healing reduction from decay "upgraded" to inversion (needs a better name lol) and the amount increased from whatever decay is.

"Dealing spirit damage on a target builds up a healing inversion debuff. Once afflicted, the targets modified healing effectiveness is converted from healing to spirit damage over time by 30%."

Active: "Afflict target with damage over time at X% max hp Spirit damage per second for T seconds. Scaling with spirit." (no longer reduces heal effectiveness as its been upgraded into the inversion passive)

The active is kept for those heroes that use/need it like shiv and it is a way to purposefully activate the passive on a single target.

This may actually be a better way to balance out both without sacrificing either of them—my main goal with keeping both within the item in the first place. I didn't want to indirectly nerf users of Decay like Shiv, so I tried to allow both to co-exist with Necrosis being a "bonus" to Decay if the user can deal consistent spirit damage.

Trying to delicately keep both independent but not overpowered is more than likely what's making one or the other (mainly Necrosis, didn't want to weaken Decay's values) so weak.

However, this idea as a whole, still might be broken as it would be a different debuff and thus stack with other heal reduction items. So 30% of the pre-reduced heal is converted into damage, reducing its total effectiveness by 60% - resistances for the damage portion, then the remainder of the heal would be further reduced by other healing reduction items, lets say 30%. this essentially has the potential to reduce the effectiveness of a heal on a target up to 90% or more assuming these all stack additively. Then you have to add in heal booster. Does that come in before or after inversion? If before then the damage is technically increased by the heal booster amount as well (20%?). Thus making this 1 item counter multiple items and heros all at once, while also having the abilities to be boosted by the users kit/item choices.

As of right now, to not make its damage too oppressive, Healing Inversion applies after Healing Reduction to not deal significant amounts of damage to the afflicted who heals themselves or receives a big heal from someone like Paige; however, I'm not certain if this would weaken Healing Inversion too much or if the percentage would be increased to compensate for healing reduction and spirit resist working against it.

I had a feeling after healing reduction would make it become exactly that—an oppressive counter to many things and characters all at once, but could I just be doubting the effectiveness of debuff and spirit resist working against it by not letting Healing Inversion be applied before Healing Reduction?

So far, I really like your idea about upgrading Decay's current function into Healing Inversion as it would allow its percentage to be increased while keeping the build-up mechanic and Decay's X% max HP spirit damage per second for characters like Shiv, and it makes sense with "before Healing Reduction" as well.

Cool idea but the conversion would end up being very weak in order for the item not to be utterly broken.

Yeah, I unfortunately thought of a very tricky item, haha. As of right now, it has to be balanced with healing reduction some kind of way. Since it is a debuff, debuff resist will also deal with it, so that's another positive, I suppose.

(needs a better name lol)

Any suggestions?

I went with inversion since it literally means the reversal or transformation of something to its opposite, and I wanted to make sure it had clarity to it even though... I'm not sure how commonly known "Inversion" is. Conversion was another I had in mind, but while similar to Inversion, it doesn't directly mean a polar opposite.

 

[micbenso66]

Any suggestions?

I went with inversion since it literally means the reversal or transformation of something to its opposite, and I wanted to make sure it had clarity to it even though... I'm not sure how commonly known "Inversion" is. Conversion was another I had in mind, but while similar to Inversion, it doesn't directly mean a polar opposite.

I would just call it necrosis. "This item causes necrosis, causing a target afflicted to take 30% of healing received as spirit damage"

The main issue I think is it stacking with regular healing debuff since they are 2 different ones. Plus, most heals are small heal over times. Like Abrams life steal deals damage, he heals for the damage, this converts some of the damage to a damage over time. But if the dot is 3 seconds long (so its not hard burst damage), does each tick of Abrams healing himself then stack infinitely. Or does it simply refresh the debuff and constantly recalculate damage based on the last strongest heal? What happens if abrams already has the debuff but then is hit with paige heal too?

 

[Aer]

I would just call it necrosis. "This item causes necrosis, causing a target afflicted to take 30% of healing received as spirit damage"

Simple and straightforward enough since hopefully most would know what "necrosis" means—TTRPG enjoyers and those in the medical field certainly will.

The main issue I think is it stacking with regular healing debuff since they are 2 different ones.

Stacking as in Inversion is being affected by Reduction or as in it's another source that diminishes healing like Reduction?

Plus, most heals are small heal over times. Like Abrams life steal deals damage, he heals for the damage, this converts some of the damage to a damage over time. But if the dot is 3 seconds long (so its not hard burst damage),

I thought to specify this in the main post and probably should have instead of assuming it'd be known, but I had in mind for Necrosis's damage to mimic each tick rate of healing, so if someone has an ongoing Healing Rite during Necrosis, it will deal spirit damage at the same rate Healing Rite is healing.

If the afflicted receives a burst of healing from Paige, a percentage of her healing will become a burst of spirit damage since Paige's ultimate doesn't heal over time.

does each tick of Abrams healing himself then stack infinitely. Or does it simply refresh the debuff and constantly recalculate damage based on the last strongest heal?

Oh, gods no, its spirit damage doesn't refresh itself nor can it build itself up. It has to be external (as in not Necrosis's) spirit damage dealt by the character who owns Necrosis. It calculates each tick and instance of healing independently from each other:

1. His own Infernal Resilience's ticks over 20s: +5 (2.5), +5 (2.5), +5 (2.5)
2. Healing Rite ticks over 20s: +2 (1), + 2 (1), +2 (1)
3. McGinnis' Medicinal Specter's ticks over its duration (6s) per sec: +25 (12.5), +25 (12.5), +25 (12.5)
   1. R3 Medicinal Specter (McGinnis's max HP): +47.5 (23.75), +47.5 (23.75), +47 (23.75)
4. Paige's Rallying Charge (no amp): +150 (75).

The numbers in parenthesis are Necrosis's spirit damage, and each independent number represents a heal tick and a spirit damage tick based on each independent number meaning that Necrosis's method of damage depends entirely on the method of healing—burst healing or healing over time becoming burst damage or damage over time.

As for an afflicted Abrams' 3, if that's what you're asking about—using your suggestion for Decay's Reduction (45%) being upgraded to Inversion (50%):

• He takes 122 spirit damage from Lady Geist's Essence Bomb.
  • He regenerates only 8.5% of the damage he took, while the missing amount (6.5%) had been inverted into spirit damage. (This spirit damage could be made to not trigger his Infernal Resilience to avoid a feedback loop like how silence from Fury Trance is unique in that it can't be cleansed.)
    • If he was also afflicted with -35% Healing Reduction, the regeneration would be reduced to 8.45% before Healing Inversion/Necrosis is applied.
    • With Healing Inversion/Necrosis applied after the reduction, his regeneration is further reduced to 4.225% while the missing amount (4.225%) had been inverted into spirit damage.

In a way, Healing Reduction balances it out alongside debuff resist and spirit resist, but I'm hoping not by too much to the point of it being weak. This is why I keep questioning myself about rather it would be better if it applied first—before Healing Reduction.

What happens if abrams already has the debuff but then is hit with paige heal too?

An allied Paige? He will take 50% of her healing as a burst of spirit damage after Healing Reduction calculations, meaning he will need to cleanse the debuff, or Paige needs to use Divine Barrier upon him to not harm him with her heal if there's no time to wait for it to wear off.

If it would be lethal damage, it won't kill him; it'll just leave him at 1 HP.

 

[Aer]

Another way it can be applied would be that the amount of healing that was reduced is applied as a damage over time instead. But that double dips the reduction of the effectiveness of healing. Which probably would ultimately make the item over powered.

I like the idea though. One potential solution would be to have the healing reduction from decay "upgraded" to inversion (needs a better name lol) and the amount increased from whatever decay is.

"Dealing spirit damage on a target builds up a healing inversion debuff. Once afflicted, the targets modified healing effectiveness is converted from healing to spirit damage over time by 30%."

Active: "Afflict target with damage over time at X% max hp Spirit damage per second for T seconds. Scaling with spirit." (no longer reduces heal effectiveness as its been upgraded into the inversion passive)

Is this the correct interpretation of your suggestion? Making sure I understood it correctly.

Aside from removing Healing Reduction to upgrade it to Healing Inversion (Necrosis), Decay still remains unchanged.