It's kind of like a butterfly from Dota, in this instance it makes you harder to hit both physically and stat-wise. It'd be great against marksmen-heavy team comps like Talon or Vindicta and also suit melee characters to improve their ability to jump around people.
T3 Vitality item - Shrinking Violet
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davidwarfordgamedev
New member
This is interesting but I am curious, how did you make these images?
I took screenshots from game as reference, official font from discord and manually traced silhouettes and aligned everything in Inkscape.
Edit: This made me realize that I uploaded version with wrong outline thickness
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davidwarfordgamedev
New member
That's quite nice, convincingly looks like it is from an in game screen shot
Aww, thanks
I dont like any random stats, like evasion, its really annoying to play against. Also you have metal skin in game, which is enough in my opinion.
Yes, but metal skin doesn't give you any meaningful mobility and doesn't last as long as this. They would be bought in different scenarios - Metal skin is against short burst bullet damage, and Shrinking in case long periods of poking. Kind of like Combat armor vs Bullet shield difference. There are a lot of similar items in game that ultimately accomplish different things.
Bullet evasion is already in the game, that's the reason why I included it. Since it's a contentious stat, it could be changed for +10% Bullet Resist or something like "Every ninth shot against you misses" and during active increase the number of missing shots.
It's also possible to ditch defensive stats altogether and lean into shrinking and mobility aspect of it - add additional stamina, jump distance and shrinking. Make it so it shrinks you to 30% of your original model size during Active, but I think that would be equally as annoying to play against with little counterplay.
In the end, I do these just for fun and to practice, so thanks for the feedback!
Whole idea of this game, is to be different. Why would you get random things in it to make it less skillful? Bullet evasion tied to certain skill is okay, as you can melee it or go away, its part of this skill design.
Every X shot for effect to proc make it too strong in certain situations and too weak in others.
Also why utility or survive ability item should give you mobility? Or why would it be too long? They give you solution to certain problem, not its remover.
In case of poking you go fortitude, shields or stealth and creep up on people or if you feel good just engage all in.
If you ditch defensive stats and allow for more mobility, it will also create situation in which you gain too much for too little.
If you want to design anything keep in mind any extreme scenario and how it compare to usual behaviour, it shouldnt be far off.
Getting 3 misses in a row in 15% dodge scenario is unreal but happens often, same with not getting any dodge in 6 or 5 shots which is also really bad. Random as mechanic was made to bring ideas to live, since coding complex mechanics or thinking things through was too bothersome or hardware taxing. Right now idk why people still do it, if its not for ability identity like bullet dance.
What?
I don't understand half this either, but what from what I understand it's a really weird complaint. This item gives you mobility because... That's what this item is about. Shrinking your hitbox and making you harder to hit. It's a Utility item for Mobility and Defense. You don't say what you said about Improved Stamina, do you?
Just don't add too much mobility on this item? You making a problems out of thin air. It's a concept - stats are up for debate.
People don't like evasion - it can be easily substituted for other stats or omitted altogether if it's too much.
There's no item that allows you to shrink your hitbox size - so this one has unique identity with unique purpose and traits that change how you interact with the game. Changing the way you move, use cover and think. Jumping high ties well into it's theme and compliments evasive aspect. Evasion as a stat can be removed from it. I don't understand the half of what you're getting at.
I'm not gonna format and waste time.
You can understand from devs approach they want this game to be different than ow, mobas, valorant, etc.
Random as game mechanic tracing back to first games ever made, as you couldnt do anything more in case you wanted to add anything, there wasnt enough processing power. Right i can only understand it if its tied to ability design, like you shouldnt hit back at bullet dance, so it has evasion.
Mobility right now is problem, while your idea solves all problems advanced movement has. No more noise from steps, more jumping distance, and you are even harder to hit mid air with smaller hitbox. Combine this with majectic jump and warpstone or pocket / lash / etc.
thinking different is good, but you also need to think around problem. What would it mean for others, that your hitbox became smaller? Right now it would be go-to item for movement builds, and completely break them. As they will have a way to receive way less damage, since they dont build defensive stats. As for right now this item is too good to be implemented.
Formatting isn't the problem, it's just that your style of writing is hard to understand for me.
No more noise from steps is only active when you activate the item, which could have even longer cooldown that I suggested.
Smaller hitbox works great against bullets and certain skillshots, but does absolutely nothing against AoE abilities and stuff like McGinnis turrets, Ricochet, Tesla Bullets and so on.
Plus, like glass cannon, this item has a downside of reducing your Max HP, and doesn't give you any damage whatsoever. Combined with the fact that every item bought by you is souls and one item lot not spent on something else, buying this makes you lose a lot potential damage in late game to gain survivability. The dreaded combination of Enduring speed, Superior Stamina, Majestic Leap and this item already leaves you without four slots that you could spend on Reducing cooldown, Damage and even HP, as only Majestic leap gives 125 HP to you out of this item. This leaves you without important slots for Unstoppable, Healbane, Leech, and so on. Basically you have no tier 4 Vitality Items if you decide to go full frog build other than flex slots.
Sure, it goes better with some heroes than the others, but it's not the item that would be must have on every hero every game, if you think about the downsides. Buying item like this into AoE-heavy enemy team comp is throwing your souls away. And it is countered by CC, Improved Reach and Punching. Sure you'll be able to Jump around a lot, but that's all you'll be able to do if you buy this when you need something else.
silverclaw2
Member
I would prefer if the shrinking was only during the active, not all the time, but yeah "reverse colossus" sounds cool.
Certain heroes would benefit too much from it. Also tinkering with fundamental way to deal damage - hitbox, is not good.
Glass cannon is good as it makes use of stat triangle, if you give damage, you taking away hp.
Your design is survive ability, mobility, and ways escape damage or situations. If this is combined with items, its too good and have no counter play.
There is no items that can prohibit stamina usage. So this makes a universal bail out thing with included survive ability, and even more of it as active for short duration.
Imagine glass cannon or any other item that make use of core mechanic and then an active amplifying its bonuses for short time. Broken. Before they solve movement problem, this item in game would it make a dash and jump contest.
silverclaw2
Member
That's why i see the passive shrinking as bad. Colossus fundamentally alters the hitbox as well, yet that's an item in the game. Honestly not really sure why you are worried about an active amplifying it's bonuses, because there are many items that already do that without being broken. For example, as I've said before, colossus.
Expanding is ok it makes you easier to hit, and its makes it even better as it gives resistances, but your thing only shrinks and gives you more mobility. At best it should be opposite of colossus.
Dude, you're not even looking who are you responding to.
my bad
What I thought is that 10 - 20% wouldn't make a big difference to make it unbalanced, plus it would tell enemies that you have this item, so they would know what to expect. But what you've described is nice too.
The way I see it - different heroes have different hitboxes already. Go into sandbox mode and choose Ivy and any other character after her. She is waay smaller. And she has 4 stamina, btw. Hitbox is just a stat like any other, and stats can be used for scaling other stats.
Stamina usage is inhibited by slowing move speed and stuns. Stamina is itself is just another thing that scales mobility, so you don't really need any items to counter stamina. Just root them, stun them and shoot them and they're done, stamina or not.
I don't see dashes and jumps as a thing that needs to be solved. Nobody fixed soldier in tf2 because he could rocket jump. It's just another manner of skill expression, such as itemization or map control. But I guess our approaches are different. Agree to disagree.
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