Split-pushing item that deals more damage to structures and minion buffs/spawns

[theoldgodhunter]

An item that primarily focuses on structure damage and minion buffing/spawning, so it helps you out on split-pushing .Ideal item would be a spirit and weapon variant of the item which lets say the weapon variant gives you one empowered bullet against structures every few seconds or gives you more structure damage in general, the other spirit variant would be minion buffing/spawning which either gives them more damage towards structures or ability to spawn more minions when you are hitting structures which of course they could be 1 hp and only serve for bursting structures

 

[betorages]

The structures already don't really have much health and die super quickly, especially with a minion wave or late game so I don't think buffing that would be beneficial.

I would be interested in one that buffed damage while solo vs heroes instead of structures, with there needing to be a tradeoff of less value when near an ally - i.e. above normal soul/power ratio when solo and below normal soul/power ratio when near an ally.

It's tough to balance something like this though because what's the range, what stops everyone from building it as a core item because of it's strength kind of thing

 

[pakshin55]

Split push is a toxic cheese strategy, and this game doesnt offer options to stop it except zip line boost to get faster onto lane, so they wont promote it at this stage. And structures at this point is really weak and fragile, not a single point to invent into destroying them a bit faster

 

[betorages]

Split push is a toxic cheese strategy, and this game doesnt offer options to stop it except zip line boost to get faster onto lane, so they wont promote it at this stage. And structures at this point is really weak and fragile, not a single point to invent into destroying them a bit faster

Calling playing the map a cheese strategy in a MOBA is hilarious lol.

I agree that structures are pretty weak, especially the outer ones - but split pushing and playing the map is a BIG part of MOBAs

 

[narcissyphus]

Its overkill, there are already multiple characters with team fire rate buffs that achieve the same thing. Split pushing is already annoying.

 

[pakshin55]

Calling playing the map a cheese strategy in a MOBA is hilarious lol.

I agree that structures are pretty weak, especially the outer ones - but split pushing and playing the map is a BIG part of MOBAs

In this game you do it with a high risk or with team, you shouldnt be able to do it alone without consequences

 

[silverclaw2]

The structures already don't really have much health and die super quickly, especially with a minion wave or late game so I don't think buffing that would be beneficial.

I would be interested in one that buffed damage while solo vs heroes instead of structures, with there needing to be a tradeoff of less value when near an ally - i.e. above normal soul/power ratio when solo and below normal soul/power ratio when near an ally.

It's tough to balance something like this though because what's the range, what stops everyone from building it as a core item because of it's strength kind of thing

That's called hunters aura.

 

[guardee90]

Don’t monster rounds also boost all your damage to creeps and buildings by a
Lot?

 

[Sir Gamer]

I wanted to suggest Heroic Aura, but after testing it seems it only boosts turrets. Hmm, really, an effect that can be used by 1 hero only?

 

[betorages]

That's called hunters aura.

That's similar but not quite the same. That's an AOE debuff that is stronger in 1v1s - what I was suggesting is a buff to your hero rather than a debuff to the enemies

 

[betorages]

Don’t monster rounds also boost all your damage to creeps and buildings by a
Lot?

Monster rounds is only to NPCs, I don't think structures are counted as NPCs

 

[pakshin55]

Calling playing the map a cheese strategy in a MOBA is hilarious lol.

I agree that structures are pretty weak, especially the outer ones - but split pushing and playing the map is a BIG part of MOBAs

Right now you can solo demolish everything through backdoor or protection if you already built in several tier 4 items. No one wants a 40 min game to end because somebody bought a funny item and did the funny thing ending it alone on enemy base while enemy team fighting your team or any other situation. Right now this game is peak fiction.

 

[pakshin55]

Don’t monster rounds also boost all your damage to creeps and buildings by a
Lot?

Only npc's, which is everything that drops souls and not a player or structure.

 

[guardee90]

Only npc's, which is everything that drops souls and not a player or structure.

check again on guardians. maybe i saw it wrong but in the sandbox my damage jumped up by a lot when i had it

 

[silverclaw2]

Right now you can solo demolish everything through backdoor or protection if you already built in several tier 4 items. No one wants a 40 min game to end because somebody bought a funny item and did the funny thing ending it alone on enemy base while enemy team fighting your team or any other situation. Right now this game is peak fiction.

By the time you have multiple T4s, it's time for the game to end. You SHOULD be able to pierce backdoor protection. Yes, early with just a few T2s or T3s would be bad, but "several tier 4 items" means the game has gone on too long.

 

[pakshin55]

By the time you have multiple T4s, it's time for the game to end. You SHOULD be able to pierce backdoor protection. Yes, early with just a few T2s or T3s would be bad, but "several tier 4 items" means the game has gone on too long.

Game should only end when you outplayed enemies and going to finish as a team, being able to do it alone with minimal effort or investment because of your hero or situation is not fair against enemy team. Do you want to change your gameplay and always be aware of that one or two guys, that always between lanes and can demolish your base and end game abruptly if you go for a mid boss or enemy base? Game doesnt have things to deal with them right now, like teleportation to your base. Bad idea overall.

Your perception stems from other games and what you saw, this is different game and it shall be different.

 

[silverclaw2]

Game should only end when you outplayed enemies and going to finish as a team, being able to do it alone with minimal effort or investment because of your hero or situation is not fair against enemy team. Do you want to change your gameplay and always be aware of that one or two guys, that always between lanes and can demolish your base and end game abruptly if you go for a mid boss or enemy base? Game doesnt have things to deal with them right now, like teleportation to your base. Bad idea overall.

Your perception stems from other games and what you saw, this is different game and it shall be different.

Absolutely not, two near equal teams wont "wipe" each other, they will kill most of each other and have to B and never make progress. This also means the entire game revolves around teamfights, and now anyone who isn't a teamfight character might as well be removed. Shoulda had a teamfight ult. Your ideas would result in two hour games and a stale meta, and speak to a fundamental misunderstanding of MOBAs as a a genre.

 

[samthefab]

The structures already don't really have much health and die super quickly, especially with a minion wave or late game so I don't think buffing that would be beneficial.

I would be interested in one that buffed damage while solo vs heroes instead of structures, with there needing to be a tradeoff of less value when near an ally - i.e. above normal soul/power ratio when solo and below normal soul/power ratio when near an ally.

It's tough to balance something like this though because what's the range, what stops everyone from building it as a core item because of it's strength kind of thing

League had two different split push items, and both had to be removed/reworked because they were unhealthy. One gave lifesteal and armour pen, then attack speed when versus one or less enemies, which led to a handful of champions like trundle/tryndamere/sion being able to delete any tower in two seconds if ignored and 1v1 anyone with just basic autos due to the amount of stats it gave them. So either you ignored them and lost every tower in a lane in about 30 seconds, or you send 2/3 people to deal with them and then the rest of their team wins the 4v2.
The second item made minions have extra armour/magic resist, and used to give the owner bonus armour/magic resist when not near allies, which made certain tanks almost unkillable if they were solo, which was eventually changed to a 4 hit passive that dealt bonus damage to towers and it doesn't get built anymore.

The problem is either you have an item which is only okay in a 1v1 situation but does nothing in teamfights, so maybe gets built on a splitpusher once every few games and is largely ignored, or you have an item which is okay in teamfights and then completely busted in the 1v1 situation, so any time a splitpusher buys it you're forced to send 2-3 people to have a chance at winning the fight, leaving the rest of the map wide open for their team. Or you just get every splitpusher forced to build it into their opponent building it which severely limits build variety.

 

[pakshin55]

Absolutely not, two near equal teams wont "wipe" each other, they will kill most of each other and have to B and never make progress. This also means the entire game revolves around teamfights, and now anyone who isn't a teamfight character might as well be removed. Shoulda had a teamfight ult. Your ideas would result in two hour games and a stale meta, and speak to a fundamental misunderstanding of MOBAs as a a genre.

if they stuck in deadlock(pun intended) they either build wrong items or playing wrong. Game is all about that. After they do right thing they will win. If it gonna take them 60 mins, no one should care really.

 

[pakshin55]

League had two different split push items, and both had to be removed/reworked because they were unhealthy. One gave lifesteal and armour pen, then attack speed when versus one or less enemies, which led to a handful of champions like trundle/tryndamere/sion being able to delete any tower in two seconds if ignored and 1v1 anyone with just basic autos due to the amount of stats it gave them. So either you ignored them and lost every tower in a lane in about 30 seconds, or you send 2/3 people to deal with them and then the rest of their team wins the 4v2.
The second item made minions have extra armour/magic resist, and used to give the owner bonus armour/magic resist when not near allies, which made certain tanks almost unkillable if they were solo, which was eventually changed to a 4 hit passive that dealt bonus damage to towers and it doesn't get built anymore.

The problem is either you have an item which is only okay in a 1v1 situation but does nothing in teamfights, so maybe gets built on a splitpusher once every few games and is largely ignored, or you have an item which is okay in teamfights and then completely busted in the 1v1 situation, so any time a splitpusher buys it you're forced to send 2-3 people to have a chance at winning the fight, leaving the rest of the map wide open for their team. Or you just get every splitpusher forced to build it into their opponent building it which severely limits build variety.

Splitpush as a whole is a result of bad design and splitpushing as i said above allows one or two players to take hostage whole enemy team or control the game flow. You really dont want to play vs splitpushing